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Liberal Minority Government 2019 - ????

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That’s certainly an interesting set of assumptions. The “joined at the wallet” approach WRT the indigenous sounds almost Québécois in its casual expectation of both having and eating its cake. And when a particular First Nation, sitting on a bunch of oil, looks at the new Prairie Canada with which it has no Supreme Court and legislatively recognized treaties, and says “no thanks, we’re good” and elects to remain part of Canada- what then?
I will be blunt, Ottawa does a crappy job of consulting in the West, the Provinces already administer the lands which includes the traditional territories, while the Treaties and rights were with Canada, the Provinces that separate will inherit those responsibilities and the FN would actually get more of an opportunity to negotiate resource rights over those areas. Reserves would still remain a Canadian Federal responsibility. The FN would bargain hard, but be in a advantageous position and may well see a lot of benefits from the split. Basically getting to milk both nations.
 
If the west including BC separated, they could easily go it alone.
They could. But with BC not going anywhere, if the west separated they would be incredibly screwed.

I do not envy western separatists. Quebec has everything they really need within the confines of Quebecs borders.

Western separatists need 4 provinces to all dislike Canada enough to come together, and leave pretty much at the same time. And if they don't get 1, BC, to join then they are right back where they started. And BC is full of them lefty NDP and Green voters who seem to have no love for Alberta's oil projects.

It's a good way to vent frustration I guess, but in terms of being plausible it still fails, and fails so very hard.

Quebec at least had a shot at the height of their movement.
 
They could. But with BC not going anywhere, if the west separated they would be incredibly screwed.

I do not envy western separatists. Quebec has everything they really need within the confines of Quebecs borders.

Western separatists need 4 provinces to all dislike Canada enough to come together, and leave pretty much at the same time. And if they don't get 1, BC, to join then they are right back where they started. And BC is full of them lefty NDP and Green voters who seem to have no love for Alberta's oil projects.

It's a good way to vent frustration I guess, but in terms of being plausible it still fails, and fails so very hard.

Quebec at least had a shot at the height of their movement.
Agreed. Most Wexit fantasy writers have to always include BC to make their ideas work. Won’t happen.
 
Kind of a pointless discussion because there are too many assumptions. A newly independent nation doesn't have to perpetuate any obligations of whatever it is separating from. Try to imagine something more like what transpired in the US - a wholly new constitution and structure of government and assertions of the relationships between peoples and governments, with retention of the laws and practices and traditions which were deemed worthy. Yes, if Canada is divisible, so is QC or AB or BC. That quickly becomes unmanageable, so there would be new negotiations, but I would expect something less like apartheid and more like contemporary local government, applicable to any community which wishes it, to emerge.

An independent west might want armed forces in order to retain membership in international pacts (eg. a small air defence force for NORAD, a coast guard and SAR just because, no other army or navy unless some Pacific-oriented partnership requires it). After that...nothing. Maybe a right to keep and bear arms.
 
Whoever is a charter member of a group of seceding regions gets a voice in setting up the new country. Those who join later, join on the terms set by those who went first. It's not obvious that, in the wake of one or more provinces seceding, Canada doesn't eventually break up some more. BC might prefer to be a charter member of a new western country rather than accept the risk of having to join someone else's party later.
 
Kind of a pointless discussion because there are too many assumptions. A newly independent nation doesn't have to perpetuate any obligations of whatever it is separating from.
Nor does it get to be automatically included in any economic, military or diplomatic alliance/agreement that whatever they are separating from is part of.

Wexit is a joke. It won’t happen. Not the way Wexiters think it will at any rate.
 
A small country not adjacent to a troublemaker doesn't particularly need military or diplomatic entanglement, and the arguments for unilaterally being a free trader are very strong. A new small nation emerging from part of Canada would find itself in the envious position of ditching a lot of baggage and not needing a number of programs and institutions that Canada thinks it needs.

Separation rarely happens the way people think it will, but Canada doesn't have any essential unity - not of culture, not of time-in. I expect Canada to start breaking up before any part of the US does.
 
Nor does it get to be automatically included in any economic, military or diplomatic alliance/agreement that whatever they are separating from is part of.

Wexit is a joke. It won’t happen. Not the way Wexiters think it will at any rate.
Yes, it's actually not easy to get into the WHO, WTO, all those organizations run out of the UN.

You need 66 percent support.

And a lot of nations don't like supporting separatist movements due to having some of their own.

Others have alliances to think of, others more economic reasons. OPEC nations would love to have a barrier to Canadian oil getting to markets.

Europe is no fan of the oil sands.

USA might be more receptive, but Canada has a veto in the new NAFTA. Can't see Mexico being super keen on this.

Just a mess.
 
A small country not adjacent to a troublemaker doesn't particularly need military or diplomatic entanglement, and the arguments for unilaterally being a free trader are very strong. A new small nation emerging from part of Canada would find itself in the envious position of ditching a lot of baggage and not needing a number of programs and institutions that Canada thinks it needs.

Separation rarely happens the way people think it will, but Canada doesn't have any essential unity - not of culture, not of time-in. I expect Canada to start breaking up before any part of the US does.

It appears that Alberta and Saskatchewan are more on board with a separation than British Columbia – the idea of an independent country that would encompass the three western-most provinces is appealing to 29% of both Albertans and Saskatchewanians, but to only 12% of British Columbians.

Wexit is a sad joke.

I get that people like to dream big dreams, but come on. 12 percent in BC support the most favorable conditions for a independent west?

We are talking about generations of trying to get enough support for any project. Generations. People knock Quebec separatists, but they put in the time, energy, effort to get their movement to its heyday, years of trying to convince the public, a generation of some of the best and brightest in Quebec making intellectual arguments and trying to sell Quebecers on the idea.

Wexit has Jay Hill.
 
Western separation doesn't have the same drivers. QC separatism has always been about becoming more special within Canada (hence sovereignty-association, not separatism). Western separation, if it ever happens, would be pure political discontent. The political conditions are nowhere near where they need to be, but the warning signs are there.

At least three conditions have to be met:
1. A not-solely-metropolitan region in which more than a bare majority of people prefer a style/tone/ideology of government different than the Canadian concensus.
2. An effective lock-out of their preference from federal government.
3. Enough time for the pot to boil over.

For those who prefer LPC government, neither (1) nor (2) applies. (The LPC is effectively the Canadian concensus.)

For those who prefer NDP government, (2) mostly applies, but (1) does not.

For those who prefer CPC government, (1) exists but (2) does not apply.

We can still pretend that conservatives can win government of Canada for roughly 40% of the time (or even merely 30%), provided conservatives win a majority again, soon. But if what we have now (LPC or LPC/NDP majority) persists, then people who want the CPC in power at least part of the time will lose attachment to Canada. Then it will only be a matter of time before some decide to detach themselves in order to run their affairs more to their own liking.

The solution is simple enough: even more decentralization, but that is anathema to the NDP and nearly so to the LPC. So the scorpion must eventually sting the frog.
 
I'm not a constitutional scholar. But, from what I have read on here, even divorcing a province is not easy, let alone a country.

9 pages.

9 pages.
 
Western separation doesn't have the same drivers. QC separatism has always been about becoming more special within Canada (hence sovereignty-association, not separatism). Western separation, if it ever happens, would be pure political discontent. The political conditions are nowhere near where they need to be, but the warning signs are there.

At least three conditions have to be met:
1. A not-solely-metropolitan region in which more than a bare majority of people prefer a style/tone/ideology of government different than the Canadian concensus.
2. An effective lock-out of their preference from federal government.
3. Enough time for the pot to boil over.

For those who prefer LPC government, neither (1) nor (2) applies. (The LPC is effectively the Canadian concensus.)

For those who prefer NDP government, (2) mostly applies, but (1) does not.

For those who prefer CPC government, (1) exists but (2) does not apply.

We can still pretend that conservatives can win government of Canada for roughly 40% of the time (or even merely 30%), provided conservatives win a majority again, soon. But if what we have now (LPC or LPC/NDP majority) persists, then people who want the CPC in power at least part of the time will lose attachment to Canada. Then it will only be a matter of time before some decide to detach themselves in order to run their affairs more to their own liking.

The solution is simple enough: even more decentralization, but that is anathema to the NDP and nearly so to the LPC. So the scorpion must eventually sting the frog.
I can totally see Canada breaking up as we know it in my lifetime, perhaps its initiated in the next 10-20 years even.
 
I'm not a constitutional scholar. But, from what I have read on here, even divorcing a province is not easy, let alone a country.

It's not necessarily a constitutional issue unless the people separating want it to be. They can declare themselves out, define their own constitution (which renders obsolete whatever constitution they previously respected), and continue. The nation of which they were part can either choose to kill over the break, or merely indulge in punitive trade practices, or try to make the best of the new situation.
 
Western separation doesn't have the same drivers. QC separatism has always been about becoming more special within Canada (hence sovereignty-association, not separatism). Western separation, if it ever happens, would be pure political discontent. The political conditions are nowhere near where they need to be, but the warning signs are there.

At least three conditions have to be met:
1. A not-solely-metropolitan region in which more than a bare majority of people prefer a style/tone/ideology of government different than the Canadian concensus.
2. An effective lock-out of their preference from federal government.
3. Enough time for the pot to boil over.

For those who prefer LPC government, neither (1) nor (2) applies. (The LPC is effectively the Canadian concensus.)

For those who prefer NDP government, (2) mostly applies, but (1) does not.

For those who prefer CPC government, (1) exists but (2) does not apply.

We can still pretend that conservatives can win government of Canada for roughly 40% of the time (or even merely 30%), provided conservatives win a majority again, soon. But if what we have now (LPC or LPC/NDP majority) persists, then people who want the CPC in power at least part of the time will lose attachment to Canada. Then it will only be a matter of time before some decide to detach themselves in order to run their affairs more to their own liking.

The solution is simple enough: even more decentralization, but that is anathema to the NDP and nearly so to the LPC. So the scorpion must eventually sting the frog.
The logistical issues are insane.

Quebec needs to have 1 party take power, have a referendum. The west needs 2 at the minimum (AB/BC) in power at the same time, have referendums around the same time, win those referendums, and then come together and build a new entity around the same time. If we think of the west as the 4 provinces, you need 4 provincial separatist parties in power around the same time, win referendums, then come together and build something new.

Then, and I think this is the cherry on the cake, you need to make a new system that allows AB to run roughshod over BC in terms of pipelines and resource development, meaning a even more strong federal government in the new country.

The logistical issues behind this project are on a whole new scale compared to what Quebec had to deal with, and the logistical issues behind Quebec separatism were one of the key things that sunk the project.
 
I can totally see Canada breaking up as we know it in my lifetime, perhaps its initiated in the next 10-20 years even.
So long as Canada keeps Quebec placated Canada is fine.

And considering every federal party has gone above and beyond to do so, I foresee the détente to last for many decades to come.

As for the west, the CPC will win eventually, and magically the talk of western separation will go away again.
 
The most complex scenarios are also the most unlikely, and not worth dwelling on except to marinade in false reassurances. The most likely scenario is the single most dissatisfied province deciding to run itself. Since a negotiated exit is so complex, the easiest path - clean break, new constitution, drop all of Canada's obligations into Canada's lap, all immediately unnecessary baggage and entitlements cast aside, etc - is the most likely one taken.

The most likely scenario is also the most dangerous. A single separated province, consolidating federal and provincial governments into one, not needing to pay for many of the things a larger country wants in order to have seats at the international big boys' tables, is more likely to also be able to pay its own way. It is possible for two things to be true at the same time: lower GDP due to the frictions and losses of separation, but lower government expenses as a share of its GDP, thus lower tax burdens. Its fiscal position becomes envious; it is attractive to high-productivity immigrants; it prospers. If it doesn't need deficit financing, it won't care what the bond rating agencies say. If it doesn't care about what the bond rating agencies say, there is no reason to negotiate holding some share of Canada's fiscal obligations. Thus begins a game of musical chairs to see which fragment of Canada is left holding all of Canada's obligations.

If a basket-case province secedes, it will likely remain a basket-case. If a prosperous province secedes, it will likely succeed.
 
The most complex scenarios are also the most unlikely, and not worth dwelling on except to marinade in false reassurances. The most likely scenario is the single most dissatisfied province deciding to run itself. Since a negotiated exit is so complex, the easiest path - clean break, new constitution, drop all of Canada's obligations into Canada's lap, all immediately unnecessary baggage and entitlements cast aside, etc - is the most likely one taken.

The most likely scenario is also the most dangerous. A single separated province, consolidating federal and provincial governments into one, not needing to pay for many of the things a larger country wants in order to have seats at the international big boys' tables, is more likely to also be able to pay its own way. It is possible for two things to be true at the same time: lower GDP due to the frictions and losses of separation, but lower government expenses as a share of its GDP, thus lower tax burdens. Its fiscal position becomes envious; it is attractive to high-productivity immigrants; it prospers. If it doesn't need deficit financing, it won't care what the bond rating agencies say. If it doesn't care about what the bond rating agencies say, there is no reason to negotiate holding some share of Canada's fiscal obligations. Thus begins a game of musical chairs to see which fragment of Canada is left holding all of Canada's obligations.

If a basket-case province secedes, it will likely remain a basket-case. If a prosperous province secedes, it will likely succeed.
I don't know Brad.

A single province, Alberta, with no WTO trade rules, tariffs everywhere, no NAFTA 2.0, and the kicker, even less in terms of pipelines.

Alberta is already struggling with oil by rail, and with no more pipelines in its future, and having to do oil by truck, oil by rail, tariffs, no trade deals, needing to start many institutions from scratch....

Massive increase in expenses, likely a drop in revenue, landlocked and I don't think that prosperity lasts long term.
 
There are plenty of landlocked countries in the world doing fine. One question, how would BC fair being cut off by land from the RoC?
 
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