Government hints at boosting Canada’s military spending

I have long said that you could fund the CAF to 4 percent of GDP, but we would still lag behind in NATO and be much the same where we are.

It's never the money, it's politics. It's procedures. It's the pork-barreling in our defence spending that makes us a paper tiger in NATO.

My only hope in all of this for the CAF and the GoC, whatever the political stripe that may be, is that it will rouse them out of the "Peace Dividend" slumber. The world has been unstable since 1945. We have used geography, proximity, and association as a Defence Policy ever since. ICBMs don't care how close to the U.S. or how far from Russia/China we are.

Don't give us a dime more, but let us spend money on defence like it matters. The fact we follow the same rules for purchasing a fighter aircraft as we do for buying office furniture for a Service Canada office is disgraceful. Don't treat defense procurement as a stimulus package for Canadian Industry. There I said it.

We spend so much money, time, and effort trying to get that money to stay in Canada; be it by awarding contracts to companies with no capability to produce items without first "retooling" and"developing the production lines", or by hamstringing perfectly competent and competitive bidders by forcing the project to be made in St. Margaret de Poutain de Champignon, QC because the ruling government either lost the seat in the election, or won it with promises.

We spend so much money and staff hours jumping through TBS regulations that are great for other departments, but are terrible for defence procurement. Some items you have to sole source, because there are technologies and capabilities no one else makes. By doing the bid process, you get companies clamoring for a project they can't deliver on, but because they tick the bright boxes on the score sheet....

I truly and honestly belief we need to split from PSPC and legislate that its not beholden to TBS, only to the PBO/PCO. The guiding principles of this new Defence Procurement department should be "Off the shelf, from somewhere else" if there isn't an industry in Canada.

BOOTFORGEN has demonstrated how well we do when we are able to actually get what we need, instead of lining the pockets of a Canadian company that got lucky.

That, but with tanks, fighters, ships, weapons systems....

 

[WLSC]

I'm sure that's a factor in the disapproval of such a prospect, but I reckon it is as applicable to Quebeccers as it is to other Canadians, and thus does not serve to explain the difference.

I did not pointed out a difference, I just add beef around you comment on Quebecers.

 

[MilEME09]

Am I dreaming? Are Canadians caring?

About two thirds of Canadians support increasing defence spending to reach NATO target: Nanos

Most Canadians support increasing defence spending to reach the two per cent target set by NATO allies, according to a national survey conducted by Nanos for CTV News.

www.ctvnews.ca

 

[Maxman1]

 

[Halifax Tar]

Am I dreaming? Are Canadians caring?

About two thirds of Canadians support increasing defence spending to reach NATO target: Nanos

Most Canadians support increasing defence spending to reach the two per cent target set by NATO allies, according to a national survey conducted by Nanos for CTV News.

www.ctvnews.ca

Nope. That's the whole mile wide inch deep thing.

 

[KevinB]

Nope. That's the whole mile wide inch deep thing.

I suspect that many more Canadians are awaking from the haze of ‘Peace Dividend’.

The reality of the actions of several hostile to Canada (other Western countries) is hard to avoid or ignore these days.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I suspect that many more Canadians are awaking from the haze of ‘Peace Dividend’.

The reality of the actions of several hostile to Canada (other Western countries) is hard to avoid or ignore these days.

You underestimate Canada's ability to put its head in the sand and wail when they find out we have to spend money on killing machines.

 

[Spencer100]

I suspect that many more Canadians are awaking from the haze of ‘Peace Dividend’.

The reality of the actions of several hostile to Canada (other Western countries) is hard to avoid or ignore these days.

Is it a case of the public being head of the government in this case? I do believe the "average" Canadian understands the danger of China/CCP more than official Ottawa.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Is it a case of the public being head of the government in this case? I do believe the "average" Canadian understands the danger of China/CCP more than official Ottawa.

The average Canadian is pissed that their mobile Starbucks order got messed up by that overworked teenager again....

 

[Quirky]

Canadians want a larger military but don't want to pay for it...OR...balanced budgets don't really matter anymore thanks to the LPC so let er buck!

 

[OldSolduer]

You underestimate Canada's several past GoC's ability to put its collective head in the sand up its own.....and wail when they find out we have to spend money on killing machines.

There - fixed that.

 

[Spencer100]

The average Canadian is pissed that their mobile Starbucks order got messed up by that overworked teenager again....

Ok ok. But I do feel there is an undercurrent in Canada with regards to China. Its not something I have seen before. People I talk to say they have taken our jobs and we buy their crap....and now they are buying us. Living in a manufacturing city this has been felt more deeply.

And when I say average Canadian, I guess my standard is now skewed. I grew up with the "average Canadian" is the CAW (now Unifor) line worker on shift work. But I guess in reality that's not the case anymore. That worker is now old, male and mostly white. But new Canadian are now in there too. Their takes on current affairs are fun and different.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Is it a case of the public being head of the government in this case? I do believe the "average" Canadian understands the danger of China/CCP more than official Ottawa.

I would reckon that the average Canadian knows about existential threats to our security. The problem is we have three things that have hobbled our attitudes towards defence since at least 1604:

-Colonial mindset
-Geography
-Economy

Firstly, we have historically depended on others for our own defence. That's everyone from the French, to the British, to the U.S. and NATO. We like to toot our own horn about 1812, Vimy, and Normandy, but forget that we got our asses kicked on our home turf by a bunch of Fenian raiders in 1866. We have had difficulty policing our own waterways and airspace. We haven't see an attack on our cities since York was burned in 1813. Since Confederation, it's been someone else backstopping our own defence. This has led to a complacent attitude within the population and thus in government.

Secondly, geography has meant war is a far off thing that we show up to, never having to play a Home game. Our placement across 2 oceans from our major adversaries has meant its highly unlikely we will be attacked; especially when wehave our most powerful and peaceful partner right next door. What has also played to that mentality is how vast a country we are. Walt Natynczyk once scoffed at a Russian invasion of Canada by saying we'd have to send SAR to save any invaders from freezing to death. The belief we are untouchable because of our size and distance has meant its not considered a likely CoA that China or Russia will be landing Divisions on our soil. Where this falls down is the use of missiles and aircraft, and the "then what?" That happens.

Finally, our economy is almost unscathed by conflict around d the world. Our resources and products are needed around the world, so global stability is good for business; but when your largest trading partner is next door and you are not required to secure your GLOCs or shipping lanes along the coasts, you're sitting pretty. The world could be burning in Europe or Asia, but USMCA will mean our products get to a market.

These things have allowed Canada to sluff off defence and create the social safety net we boast highly about to anyone who will listen. The problem is when you get places like the Nordic countries who manage to have both, and better quality of each. The difference is that the Finns, Swedes, and Norwegians don't have geography on their side. They have needed to get it right the first time and make sure the quality of life their citizens enjoy is protected.

Canada just waits for someone else to do it and plays Grasshopper to the Ants.

 

[markppcli]

So…CAUKUS?

Surely the preferred acronym is CUK USA?

 

[FSTO]

geography has meant war is a far off thing that we show up to, never having to play a Home game

Except for the U-Boats in the Gulf of St Lawrence mid WWII. We were on our own (AFAIK) and the Germans had a good go at us. But NOBODY in Canada remembers this.

 

[Spencer100]

I would reckon that the average Canadian knows about existential threats to our security. The problem is we have three things that have hobbled our attitudes towards defence since at least 1604:

-Colonial mindset
-Geography
-Economy

Firstly, we have historically depended on others for our own defence. That's everyone from the French, to the British, to the U.S. and NATO. We like to toot our own horn about 1812, Vimy, and Normandy, but forget that we got our asses kicked on our home turf by a bunch of Fenian raiders in 1866. We have had difficulty policing our own waterways and airspace. We haven't see an attack on our cities since York was burned in 1813. Since Confederation, it's been someone else backstopping our own defence. This has led to a complacent attitude within the population and thus in government.

Secondly, geography has meant war is a far off thing that we show up to, never having to play a Home game. Our placement across 2 oceans from our major adversaries has meant its highly unlikely we will be attacked; especially when wehave our most powerful and peaceful partner right next door. What has also played to that mentality is how vast a country we are. Walt Natynczyk once scoffed at a Russian invasion of Canada by saying we'd have to send SAR to save any invaders from freezing to death. The belief we are untouchable because of our size and distance has meant its not considered a likely CoA that China or Russia will be landing Divisions on our soil. Where this falls down is the use of missiles and aircraft, and the "then what?" That happens.

Finally, our economy is almost unscathed by conflict around d the world. Our resources and products are needed around the world, so global stability is good for business; but when your largest trading partner is next door and you are not required to secure your GLOCs or shipping lanes along the coasts, you're sitting pretty. The world could be burning in Europe or Asia, but USMCA will mean our products get to a market.

These things have allowed Canada to sluff off defence and create the social safety net we boast highly about to anyone who will listen. The problem is when you get places like the Nordic countries who manage to have both, and better quality of each. The difference is that the Finns, Swedes, and Norwegians don't have geography on their side. They have needed to get it right the first time and make sure the quality of life their citizens enjoy is protected.

Canada just waits for someone else to do it and plays Grasshopper to the Ants.

You are 100 percent. I agree.

I was just referring to the poll above. And that in this case the public may be ahead of the Ottawa or more so the liberal party on this. They see the threat and are wondering why the PM doesn't.

I say that poll if worded like "will you pay more in taxes for defence?" it would be very different outcome.

 

[Furniture]

Except for the U-Boats in the Gulf of St Lawrence mid WWII. We were on our own (AFAIK) and the Germans had a good go at us. But NOBODY in Canada remembers this.

People used to remember, but the people who were old enough to be scared, or fight in that war are pretty much all long gone. Then we had governments since 1991 working to convince us that that war wasn't a thing anymore, so there was no need to prepare for it.

 

[JLB50]

I would reckon that the average Canadian knows about existential threats to our security. The problem is we have three things that have hobbled our attitudes towards defence since at least 1604:

-Colonial mindset
-Geography
-Economy

Firstly, we have historically depended on others for our own defence. That's everyone from the French, to the British, to the U.S. and NATO. We like to toot our own horn about 1812, Vimy, and Normandy, but forget that we got our asses kicked on our home turf by a bunch of Fenian raiders in 1866. We have had difficulty policing our own waterways and airspace. We haven't see an attack on our cities since York was burned in 1813. Since Confederation, it's been someone else backstopping our own defence. This has led to a complacent attitude within the population and thus in government.

Secondly, geography has meant war is a far off thing that we show up to, never having to play a Home game. Our placement across 2 oceans from our major adversaries has meant its highly unlikely we will be attacked; especially when wehave our most powerful and peaceful partner right next door. What has also played to that mentality is how vast a country we are. Walt Natynczyk once scoffed at a Russian invasion of Canada by saying we'd have to send SAR to save any invaders from freezing to death. The belief we are untouchable because of our size and distance has meant its not considered a likely CoA that China or Russia will be landing Divisions on our soil. Where this falls down is the use of missiles and aircraft, and the "then what?" That happens.

Finally, our economy is almost unscathed by conflict around d the world. Our resources and products are needed around the world, so global stability is good for business; but when your largest trading partner is next door and you are not required to secure your GLOCs or shipping lanes along the coasts, you're sitting pretty. The world could be burning in Europe or Asia, but USMCA will mean our products get to a market.

These things have allowed Canada to sluff off defence and create the social safety net we boast highly about to anyone who will listen. The problem is when you get places like the Nordic countries who manage to have both, and better quality of each. The difference is that the Finns, Swedes, and Norwegians don't have geography on their side. They have needed to get it right the first time and make sure the quality of life their citizens enjoy is protected.

Canada just waits for someone else to do it and plays Grasshopper to the Ants.

An excellent analysis!

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Is it a case of the public being head of the government in this case? I do believe the "average" Canadian understands the danger of China/CCP more than official Ottawa.

I don’t think the average Canadian understands any of the current or likely future dangers to Canada and our way of life.

The average Canadian doesn’t seem to understand the danger some of our own political parties and there spokespersons represent (I refrain from using the words “politics” and “leaders” in a joined manner) so it seems a stretch they understand anything related to the CCP as well.

 

[Spencer100]

I don’t think the average Canadian understands any of the current or likely future dangers to Canada and our way of life.

The average Canadian doesn’t seem to understand the danger some of our own political parties and there spokespersons represent (I refrain from using the words “politics” and “leaders” in a joined manner) so it seems a stretch they understand anything related to the CCP as well.

I'm not so sure. I think there is a greater understanding. Maybe it's just more of a feeling. But something has changed.

Fyi just texting to my clueless sister just before type this. Her son is job hunting as he has just graduated Queens...she tells me he applied to Volvo to work in their advanced VR lab. So asked which one? Volvo Cars or Volvo AB.....she then just texted back "not cars they're Chinese! She didn't want her son to work for a Chinese company.

FYI....Ford sold Volvo Cars to Chinese maker Chery over 1o years ago. Volvo AB is still Swedish. They make trucks, busses and engines etc. They still have a manufacturing footprint in Canada.

 

[TacticalTea]

I don’t think the average Canadian understands any of the current or likely future dangers to Canada and our way of life.

The average Canadian doesn’t seem to understand the danger some of our own political parties and there spokespersons represent (I refrain from using the words “politics” and “leaders” in a joined manner) so it seems a stretch they understand anything related to the CCP as well.

There's a bit of both for sure. Some Canadians are truly clueless and come out completely baffled when I brief them about the challenges ahead for the 21st century.

Others, light on details as they may be, still understand the threat that China represents. Seemingly better than our own government, as Spencer mentioned.

The fence that determines where individuals fall in this dichotomy seems to be whether or not they were alive during the Cold war. A corollary to that being that if they were communists/socialists then, they still don't see the threat today.