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CAN-USA Tariff Strife (split from various pol threads)

Well, I can't read his mind or heart, but I can read his words about offering to eliminate tariffs if Canada becomes the 51st state. Yeah, as a real estate/entertainment-developed guy, I get he gusts to exaggeration, but I haven't seen/heard anything suggesting he loves Canada so much that the beating hurts him more than it hurts us. Happy to see/read/hear evidence to the contrary, though.

As some have agreed upthread, in POTUS47's eyes, tariffs = $ in the bank for tax cuts/whatever he wants to do with it (with Canada/Mexico as a handy blame target for Americans who'll suffer under tariffs), so my guess is to watch for moving targets. I'd love to be wrong.

I'm no international financier. I go with my gut and what I've witnessed over 70+ years on the planet. Think of me as the guy in the bar with a ball cap and dirt under my fingernails, that your having a casual conversation with over a beer. During my military time, I've had Canadian Professional Sales Association training and been responsible for one project of over $1 million, I was NPF manager for the BG in Bosnia responsible for stock and sales of over $1.5 million and directed and oversaw all CIMIC projects done on Athena Roto 0 to the tune of well over $2 million. That's the extent of my financial and sales experience. It doesn't make me an expert in international trade. It does give me some small insight into Trumps sales strategy.

I'll leave the numbers and minutiae to the experts here to argue the finer points.
 

This little gem comes from Trump’s own White House back in 2020 following the replacement of NAFTA with the USMCA treaty which he had just signed. If his new treaty was so good then why does he now have to abrogate it before its expiration and come up with a new treaty?

Also, it’s interesting that he is putting a 25% tariff on us (supposedly his friends) vs. only a threatened 10% tariff on China, supposedly his main economic annd military adversary. As many of us here have been saying for quite awhile Trump intends to inflict considerable harm on Canada to force us to bow to his will. He is out to take over Canada by any means possible. He sees it, along with Greenland and the Panama Canal, as the ultimate extension of manifest destiny.
 

This little gem comes from Trump’s own White House back in 2020 following the replacement of NAFTA with the USMCA treaty which he had just signed. If his new treaty was so good then why does he now have to abrogate it before its expiration and come up with a new treaty?

Also, it’s interesting that he is putting a 25% tariff on us (supposedly his friends) vs. only a threatened 10% tariff on China, supposedly his main economic annd military adversary. As many of us here have been saying for quite awhile Trump intends to inflict considerable harm on Canada to force us to bow to his will. He is out to take over Canada by any means possible. He sees it, along with Greenland and the Panama Canal, as the ultimate extension of manifest destiny.
Personally I'm slowly warming to the Idea of Canadian nuclear weapons.
I wonder if Ukraine ever regrets the 94 ' ( ? ) treaty with both the US and Russia acting as guarantors of Ukraine's independence.
 

This little gem comes from Trump’s own White House back in 2020 following the replacement of NAFTA with the USMCA treaty which he had just signed. If his new treaty was so good then why does he now have to abrogate it before its expiration and come up with a new treaty?

Also, it’s interesting that he is putting a 25% tariff on us (supposedly his friends) vs. only a threatened 10% tariff on China, supposedly his main economic annd military adversary. As many of us here have been saying for quite awhile Trump intends to inflict considerable harm on Canada to force us to bow to his will. He is out to take over Canada by any means possible. He sees it, along with Greenland and the Panama Canal, as the ultimate extension of manifest destiny.
I think it’s 10% additional on china from what they currently have. I could be wrong though.
 
Let’s not kid ourselves. Trump doesn’t want us actually stronger. He doesn’t care if we’re more democratic because he doesn’t actually care about his own democracy other than as a tool to empower and aggrandize himself. He’s a ‘will to power’ type. He wants to leverage, exploit, and profit from other countries. Our weaknesses and failings aren’t actually things that particularly vex him; rather they’re political and diplomatic vulnerabilities that he knows he can wedge a lever in to justify more crass and exploitive wants of his own.

Being able to literally fold some or all of Canada into the U.S. - to acquire us, in a way familiar tot he him in the world he came up in - would be the ultimate coup. If he actually has his sights set on that, on economically pressuring us to cave and sell out, it’s not something we’ll ameliorate by policy choices.

Now, we should make sound policy choices anyway for their own sake, and to be able to take the rhetorical wind out of his sails at least somewhat. We should absolutely materially improve our sovereignty for the sake of sovereignty. But the Trump wind blows hard, and I think we’re in for four straight years of plain bullying to try to coerce us. Preparing for anything less than that would be foolhardy.

I certainly don't think Trump is acting out of any sort of benevolence. At least not towards Canada.

I think that his push for 2 to 5% of GDP is predicated on a couple or three things.

1 - I think that he feels that the US has been employed by the international community as insurer and night watchman for the past few decades and that that has imposed a financial burden on the US that was not carried by countries that are now competing with the US.

2 - I think he wants to monetize that burden and get compensation for past services.

3 - I think he wants other countries to do the security work so the US doesn't have to.

4 - I think he wants other countries to be hindered by their security budgets as much as the US is.

5 - I think also that security may include foreign aid and development of which the US has contributed a lions share.

....

A few years back our Federal Government was in financial difficulties. Paul Martin balanced the books by offloading expenses to the Provinces.

...

I can't agree with those people that are seeing this as a malicious attack on Canada. I don't think we should take this personally and respond defensively. I think we need to see this as a completely different philosophy being implemented by people that feel hard done by and want to do the other thing. I do agree with those who see Canada as being used as an example, demonstrating to the rest of the world that if he can do this to Canada then he can do this to anybody. After all Canada is a Most Favoured Nation who was granted tariff free access to the US market first in what became, or was supposed to become, a model for international trade.

I also think that Canada being threatened with the same 25% tariff as Mexico on, essentially, the same grounds as Mexico was indicative of his desire to renegotiate the NAFTA agreements. Canada was minded, once upon a time, to stand with Mexico against the US. Trump managed to separate Mexico and Canada the last time around. This time around Trudeau started talking about standing with Mexico. It didn't take long until Freeland very publicly threw Mexico under the bus. We have got to the place where we are arguing that we don't deserve 25% tariffs because we aren't Mexico. We don't have the drug and immigration problems Mexico does. And our workers aren't as cheap as Mexico's.
 
Business is business. He owes us no favours. Currently, he's dealing with a hostile marxist government. He is completely mistrustful, and rightly so, of this government. He's caught trudeau more than once being two faced and shit talking behind his back. He has absolutely no reason to trust us or be magnanimous and charitable to us. We need educated, professional people to handle this. Not politicians. He's already well on his way to divide and conquer and has our team sniping at each other. We need to sit back, take a breath and approach this professionally and without emotion.
 
You’re unintentionally advertising quite strongly for Carney over Poilievre here.

No I'm not. He was counted out when I mentioned the current marxist government. I see Carney as more of a financier than someone to negotiate trade. Poliviere has lots of options in this country to find a team of business negotiators without going to the Laurentien Elites. They certainly would be better than the journalist who negotiated the last disaster.
 
No I'm not. He was counted out when I mentioned the current marxist government. I see Carney as more of a financier than someone to negotiate trade. Poliviere has lots of options in this country to find a team of business negotiators without going to the Laurentien Elites. They certainly would be better than the journalist who negotiated the last disaster.
Marx would find the notion of our government being ‘Marxist’ laughable. You use the term with the same liberty that the DPRK uses the term “democratic”.

Don’t lose sight of the fact that one of Carney’s roles (after thirteen years at the notable bulwark of communism Goldman Sachs) was leading the federal government’s divestment of its stake in Petro Canada… Not exactly the predicted socialist seizing of the means of production by the proletariat, that. If he’s a Marxist, he’s about as good at it as I am at singing opera (or singing anything else).
 
Marx would find the notion of our government being ‘Marxist’ laughable. You use the term with the same liberty that the DPRK uses the term “democratic”.

Don’t lose sight of the fact that one of Carney’s roles (after thirteen years at the notable bulwark of communism Goldman Sachs) was leading the federal government’s divestment of its stake in Petro Canada… Not exactly the predicted socialist seizing of the means of production by the proletariat, that. If he’s a Marxist, he’s about as good at it as I am at singing opera (or singing anything else).

You seem to be the one pulling for Carney now.🤣😉

Meh, opinions.
 
You seem to be the one pulling for Carney now.🤣😉

Meh, opinions.
I’m not, actually- not sure how I feel yet, and I’m not eligible to vote in the leadership anyway. I do recognize his real life non-politics resume as considerably stronger between the two, though.

Still waiting to see the platforms, which we won’t get til a writ drops.
 
You seem to be the one pulling for Carney now.🤣😉

Meh, opinions.
Is he wrong though?

Look, Carney is a lot of things, but “Marxist” ain’t it.

I would say he’s a weird green croney-capitalist hybrid technocrat. He wants to use the regulatory power of the state to create winners and losers. That’s bad enough. But I’ll be surprised if he seizes the means of production for the proletariat and shuts down the banks.
 
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