- Reaction score
- 26,286
- Points
- 1,360
Canada?
CAN-USA Tariff Strife (split from various pol threads)
- Thread starter Remius
- Start date
- Reaction score
- 10,664
- Points
- 1,160
- Reaction score
- 10,664
- Points
- 1,160
What is the difference between a tariff and a sales tax?
Both are consumption taxes charged to the consumer at the point of sale.
There are a number of reputable economists, and some influential columnists, that have argued the merits of replacing the income tax system with the national sales tax.
From a logistics standpoint, nationally, we, and most nations, manage harmonized sales taxes across borders. In the EU they have their Value Added Taxes among others. In Canada we have the application of the HST/GST to Inter-Provincial Trade. We manage GST/HST intra-provincially as well. Manufacturers are well versed in managing that tax.
Would they have much difficulty in managing a cross-border sales tax between the US and Canada?
Suppose President Trump is serious (I know!) about relieving the average tax payer of their tax burden by charging a consumption tax on imported goods.
The counter then would be to take him at face value and institute our own national consumption tax on imported goods. We too could use the revenue stream to offset internal taxes.
Of course, with Trump, and other nations, we are likely to get into "social credit" discussions. If we don't play nice with them then they won't play nice with us. That will then become a debate for the diplomats as they try to manage reciprocity and harmonize the taxes.
That calculus is already baked into international trade agreements with the allowable concept of Most Favoured Nation.
....
Trump may indeed be serious about the 51st state. We should take him seriously and plan to negotiate as if on equal footing. But it is up to us to convince him we have a better offer that doesn't include the costs of subsidizing us, keeping a leftish population happy and paying for the defence of a large chunk of turf.
...
Tuesday.
Both are consumption taxes charged to the consumer at the point of sale.
There are a number of reputable economists, and some influential columnists, that have argued the merits of replacing the income tax system with the national sales tax.
From a logistics standpoint, nationally, we, and most nations, manage harmonized sales taxes across borders. In the EU they have their Value Added Taxes among others. In Canada we have the application of the HST/GST to Inter-Provincial Trade. We manage GST/HST intra-provincially as well. Manufacturers are well versed in managing that tax.
Would they have much difficulty in managing a cross-border sales tax between the US and Canada?
Suppose President Trump is serious (I know!) about relieving the average tax payer of their tax burden by charging a consumption tax on imported goods.
The counter then would be to take him at face value and institute our own national consumption tax on imported goods. We too could use the revenue stream to offset internal taxes.
Of course, with Trump, and other nations, we are likely to get into "social credit" discussions. If we don't play nice with them then they won't play nice with us. That will then become a debate for the diplomats as they try to manage reciprocity and harmonize the taxes.
That calculus is already baked into international trade agreements with the allowable concept of Most Favoured Nation.
....
Trump may indeed be serious about the 51st state. We should take him seriously and plan to negotiate as if on equal footing. But it is up to us to convince him we have a better offer that doesn't include the costs of subsidizing us, keeping a leftish population happy and paying for the defence of a large chunk of turf.
...
Tuesday.
Let’s not kid ourselves. Trump doesn’t want us actually stronger. He doesn’t care if we’re more democratic because he doesn’t actually care about his own democracy other than as a tool to empower and aggrandize himself. He’s a ‘will to power’ type. He wants to leverage, exploit, and profit from other countries. Our weaknesses and failings aren’t actually things that particularly vex him; rather they’re political and diplomatic vulnerabilities that he knows he can wedge a lever in to justify more crass and exploitive wants of his own.
Being able to literally fold some or all of Canada into the U.S. - to acquire us, in a way familiar tot he him in the world he came up in - would be the ultimate coup. If he actually has his sights set on that, on economically pressuring us to cave and sell out, it’s not something we’ll ameliorate by policy choices.
Now, we should make sound policy choices anyway for their own sake, and to be able to take the rhetorical wind out of his sails at least somewhat. We should absolutely materially improve our sovereignty for the sake of sovereignty. But the Trump wind blows hard, and I think we’re in for four straight years of plain bullying to try to coerce us. Preparing for anything less than that would be foolhardy.
Being able to literally fold some or all of Canada into the U.S. - to acquire us, in a way familiar tot he him in the world he came up in - would be the ultimate coup. If he actually has his sights set on that, on economically pressuring us to cave and sell out, it’s not something we’ll ameliorate by policy choices.
Now, we should make sound policy choices anyway for their own sake, and to be able to take the rhetorical wind out of his sails at least somewhat. We should absolutely materially improve our sovereignty for the sake of sovereignty. But the Trump wind blows hard, and I think we’re in for four straight years of plain bullying to try to coerce us. Preparing for anything less than that would be foolhardy.
- Reaction score
- 8,405
- Points
- 1,160
There is no point arguing opinions. We'll just have to wait and see.
- Reaction score
- 10,664
- Points
- 1,160
This podcast is worth a listen.
The reason Trump plans to crush Canada that our politicians just don’t get: Full Comment podcast
Carlo Dade and Ian Lee examine what the 'America First' advisers around U.S. President Donald Trump really think
nationalpost.com
- Reaction score
- 26,286
- Points
- 1,360
It’s not personal. It’s business.
- Reaction score
- 5,648
- Points
- 1,260
The other thing to keep in mind is Trump’s belligerence will funnel a lot of countries into Beijing’s orbit. We are already seeing the smart set in this country saying we should be going back to Beijing cap in hand, and Beijing saying to us and other countries that they will offer “fair deals” to come into their orbit. I think it would be a disaster, but no one in government asks for my opinion on foreign affairs.
If the Trump administration is trying to limit other countries’ exposure to Beijing, they may be going about it the wrong way. Personally, I don’t think they really care. They see trade and the economy as a zero-sum game. I think they are all about crushing “the competition”, whatever that is, regardless the cost.
If the Trump administration is trying to limit other countries’ exposure to Beijing, they may be going about it the wrong way. Personally, I don’t think they really care. They see trade and the economy as a zero-sum game. I think they are all about crushing “the competition”, whatever that is, regardless the cost.
- Reaction score
- 10,664
- Points
- 1,160
I think this is the document that was referenced in the Brian Lilley podcast by Ian Lee of Carleton.
As @Good2Golf says - its business.
As @Good2Golf says - its business.
- Reaction score
- 17,304
- Points
- 1,160
Yup, this is a real concern I have.
- Reaction score
- 8,405
- Points
- 1,160
I'm pretty sure our Conservative government will move to expel, cut ties and quit making deals with China rather than move under their umbrella. If we become a lapdog of Bejing, on purpose, I and I would imagine a large portion of this country, will be outta here.
It's a typical Canadian solution though. Worry so much about becoming the 51st state that we run to and become a province of China. I can think of no better way to cut off our nose to spite our face. Our resources would be plundered and gone within a decade.
It's a typical Canadian solution though. Worry so much about becoming the 51st state that we run to and become a province of China. I can think of no better way to cut off our nose to spite our face. Our resources would be plundered and gone within a decade.
- Reaction score
- 10,664
- Points
- 1,160
This article is interesting in that explicitly links trade policy, tariffs and currency manipulation.
Which leads to speculation about the Federal Reserve and its independence
Sep 26 2024
The End of the Federal Reserve as We Know It?
September 26, 2024, Opinion: "Donald Trump attacked the Federal Reserve throughout his presidency, complaining about interest-rate increases and lobbing insults at Chairman Jerome Powell. In his bid to regain the office, he has renewed those attacks while demanding that as president he get a...
Nov 7 2024
What Trump’s Win Means for Fed Independence
Donald J. Trump spent his first presidency on a collision course with America’s central bank. Will it intensify?
Nov 18 2024
How Trump Can Control the Fed
Could President-elect Donald Trump end Fed independence on monetary policy? A legislative anomaly gives him a way.
www.cfr.org
Jan 2 2025
Will Trump Fire the Fed? | by Kenneth Rogoff - Project Syndicate
Kenneth Rogoff worries about the incoming US administration’s plans to weaken the central bank’s independence.
www.project-syndicate.org
And it throws some interesting light on this Wall Street Journal article from
Jan 26 2025
....
Tariffs coordinated with currency valuation - and the independence of the Fed.
But
Currency valuation is slow and communal, not entirely within the control of the Fed or any central bank let alone politicians - Ask Liz Truss.
So
Market reaction
...
Generally speaking, IMO, Conservative finance ministers have pursued a strong Canadian dollar while Liberal finance ministers have pursued a weak Canadian dollar.
A strong dollar acts to make it easier for Canadians to import goods and services, encouraging investment. A weak dollar acts, like a tariff, to make it harder to import but makes exports more attractive to foreign buyers. The weak dollar tends to support Canadian jobs, jobs, jobs.
A strong Mulroney dollar and a relatively weaker Reagan dollar would have made it easier for Canada to invest in, for example, defence.
Harper too was pursuing a strong dollar policy, and concurrently building up gold reserves which could have acted as a hedge against future fluctuations. My belief is that that was factored into the intention to spend a lot of money on new Fighters and Ships.
- Reaction score
- 10,664
- Points
- 1,160
How close to China do you reckon we could come before we provoke an equal and opposite reaction from our neighbours?
Finland's solution, when confronted with that problem, was to enrol everybody in the army and declare neutrality.
Halifax Tar
Army.ca Legend
- Reaction score
- 15,568
- Points
- 1,260
Canada’s in a better position to stand up for ourselves on that. We have lots of stuff other people want. China and the U.S. are natural consumers of our resources and goods. We can sell the products without selling the companies, mineral rights, or intellectual property… If we’re wise enough to do that. We have been getting better at applying the Investment Canada Act and doing national security reviews of foreign acquisitions of our companies.
A lot of developing world countries aren’t in our same fortunate position and basically need a benefactor. China plays a very good long game in its foreign direct investment. Very likely they see a lot of opportunity opening up here.
Canada could and should be doing a lot more to forge ties with other countries…Britain, Japan, etc.
- Reaction score
- 6,844
- Points
- 1,260
Well, I can't read his mind or heart, but I can read his words about offering to eliminate tariffs if Canada becomes the 51st state. Yeah, as a real estate/entertainment-developed guy, I get he gusts to exaggeration, but I haven't seen/heard anything suggesting he loves Canada so much that the beating hurts him more than it hurts us. Happy to see/read/hear evidence to the contrary, though.
As some have agreed upthread, in POTUS47's eyes, tariffs = $ in the bank for tax cuts/whatever he wants to do with it (with Canada/Mexico as a handy blame target for Americans who'll suffer under tariffs), so my guess is to watch for moving targets. I'd love to be wrong.
- Reaction score
- 8,405
- Points
- 1,160
I'm not sure where they would draw the line, but there's no way in hell they would allow them to operate to China's satisfaction in Canada. As soon as they see us as a vassal state of China, the world is in trouble.
- Reaction score
- 1,988
- Points
- 1,160
Smith is the only brain in the negotiations.
