CAN-USA Tariff Strife (split from various pol threads)

[MilEME09]

What is wrong with a leader that wants those things for his country? We should have a leader that wants those same things also.
You make it sound like we are entitled to interfere with those goals.

The two ideas are not compatible, you can't have an isolationist United States and a prosperous Canada in the same breath. It's not rooted in reality, as we see right now playing out, trumps isolationist policies hurt us, not help us.

You can't have your cake and eat it to

 

[brihard]

Just back from the grocery store- already starting to see “made in Canada” shelf labels cropping up. For the first time for me I was specifically attentive to country of origin when buying normal groceries.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Trump uses mass firing to remove independent inspectors general at a series of agencies

The sweeping action removes oversight of his new administration. Some members of Congress are suggesting it violated federal oversight laws.

apnews.com

That doesn't mean they won't be in place where they are needed. Nor does it mean no more audits.

'Trump confirmed the move in a conversation with reporters aboard Air Force One on Saturday, claiming, “it’s a very common thing to do.” He said he would “put good people in there that will be very good.”

He's not cancelling the positions. He's replacing people he has no confidence in with those he does. Nothing wrong there and standard business practice.

17? Nobody knows beyond a faceless, anonymous person who isn't even sure themselves. Even Chuck Schumer guessed at 12.

My opinion is if you have an IG working inside a possibly corrupt organization and they aren't reporting those irregularities, you replace them.

It's telling the only ones seemingly bothered by this are the regular shit throwing chicken littles in the democrat party.

So the statement "Not to mention Trump is firing every inspector general. So no more independent audits of spending." is a completely false statement. A product of wishful thinking and skewed opinion. As proven by your own article.

As an aside, Michael Horowitz, Justice Dept IG has been doing his job and is being retained.

"Replacing independent inspectors general with political hacks will harm every American who relies on social security, veterans benefits, and a fair hearing at IRS on refunds and audits,” Connolly (D-Virginia) said.

Which is exactly what the Biden WH did.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

The two ideas are not compatible, you can't have an isolationist United States and a prosperous Canada in the same breath. It's not rooted in reality, as we see right now playing out, trumps isolationist policies hurt us, not help us.

You can't have your cake and eat it to

You most certainly can, but that's for another forum.

 

[Baz]

Which is exactly what the Biden WH did.

As I said, but maybe ineloquately... nobody except Trump and his supporters cares what the Biden White House did anymore.

The question is, of the ones being replaced, and the ones doing the replacing, which are corrupt? My feeling is that there are corrupt elements in both. However, I have zero confidence that Trump:

• is draining the swamp
• cares about the average US citizen
• isn't taking care of Trump, first and foremost.

 

[Lumber]

I think PP is wrong. I think he is saying these things because he reads the emotive response of “hurah! Go Canada! We’re punching back!” Foisted by the media and lapped up by the sheep. He’s trying to avoid being called a traitor by the media/LPC machine by taking any other measured position (D. Smith) that could jeopardize his electoral chances.

The right approach in my view would be do nothing on tariffs. But immediately do the following:
- rapidly accelerate energy development, thats O&G, coal, nuclear, and LNG, not windmills
-rapidly accelerate a means to move that product in every direction, Quebec be damned
-rapidly reduce inter provincial trade barriers
-immediately halt foreign aid that serves no real national interest, plenty to trim here
-drop expensive vote buying social programs, this would need detailed analysis but includes the over correction of DEI
-rapid overhaul of government procurement for fast acquisitions
-rapid build out of CAF capabilities, and recruiting, use mainly American hardware.
-drop the net zero cult goal and everything that goes with it, even NASA says we’re good
-create business environment for investment, Canada has lost billions under Trudeau.
-take drastic measures to root out foreign adversarial influence focusing on the CCP first.
-serious on border and immigration


We won’t win a tit for tat tariff war against an economy 12x our size that imports a small percentage of its overall from us. In fact, I think that’s how you get to the 51st state much faster.

There is no way Trudeau will do many of those things - it would mean he’s been wrong for 10 years. Hence tariff war for the plebes.

Just about nothing on this list is something that can be done rapidly. Even if JT used the EA to force through approval and funding for an energy east pipeline and multiple lng terminals, we'd be well into the next presidential term before they got built. Further, a lot of these idea have nothing at all to do with "how to combat the unilateral and unwarranted economic attack by a neighbor".

So, once again, what is it you think Canada should be doing in the immediate term in response?

 

[brihard]

Here’s a simplified ‘news story’ version list of the products impacted by our counter-tariffs.

Canada’s retaliatory tariffs: Here’s the list of targeted items - National | Globalnews.ca

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has announced billions of dollars in new tariffs on U.S. imports to Canada. The affected goods include foods, appliances. jewelry and some clothing.

globalnews.ca

Sadly, grenades are on there.

 

[QV]

Prosperity under an isolationist president who wants America first, and all businesses to only make things in America. You must be joking

Everyone wins when the US is doing well. How quickly you forget how your pensions and stocks were doing under 45.
Trump’s rhetoric on America first does not make an isolationist position.

 

[QV]

Just about nothing on this list is something that can be done rapidly. Even if JT used the EA to force through approval and funding for an energy east pipeline and multiple lng terminals, we'd be well into the next presidential term before they got built. Further, a lot of these idea have nothing at all to do with "how to combat the unilateral and unwarranted economic attack by a neighbor".

So, once again, what is it you think Canada should be doing in the immediate term in response?

“Can’t” is not a good look, but I get it’s the CAF motto as of late. The best time to start was 15 years ago. The second best time is now.

 

[Haggis]

Here’s a simplified ‘news story’ version list of the products impacted by our counter-tariffs.

Canada’s retaliatory tariffs: Here’s the list of targeted items - National | Globalnews.ca

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has announced billions of dollars in new tariffs on U.S. imports to Canada. The affected goods include foods, appliances. jewelry and some clothing.

globalnews.ca

Sadly, grenades are on there.

Firearms, too. After all his bans, nobody was buying them anyways.

 

[Kirkhill]

GDP - PPP - Per Capita - USD - 2023

USA - 81,695.19

Norway - 87,961.78 (Oil and Gas and Hydro Power)

Netherlands - 62,536.73 (No natural resources to speak of - Agriculture and Technology)
Sweden - 56,305.25 (A mountain of Iron and Technology)
Finland - 53,755.91 (No natural resources to speak of - Technology)

Canada - 53,371.70 (All the riches in the world)

...

Game plan - defeat the US by achieving the Norwegian level of productivity.

87,961.78 - 53,371.70 = 34,590.08 = 65% increase in productivity and national income.

34,590.08 / WCS at 60 USD per barrel = 576 more barrels of WCS per Canadian per year or 1.6 barrels per day (65 million barrels per day)
Current Canadian production is 4 million barrels per day = .1 barrels per Canadian per day
Norwegian production is about 2 million barrels per day but there are only 5 million Norwegians
Current Norwegian production = .4 barrels per Norwegian per day

Canadian Natural Gas (AECO C) sells at 1.3 USD per MMBTU (~1 GJ)
In the Netherlands the TTF is about 15.3 USD per MMBTU (~1 GJ)

34,590.08 / WCS at 15 USD per GJ = 2306 more GJ of natural gas per Canadian per year or 6 GJ per day (240 million GJ per day)
Current Canadian production is 22 million GJ per day = .5 GJ per Canadian per day
Norwegian production is about 15 million GJ per day but there are only 5 million Norwegians
Current Norwegian production = 3 GJ per Norwegian per day

...

We could look at Hydro power but it appears that we are running short of that (climate change will do that to you).

Quebec faces big electricity shortfall after wooing U.S. to buy cheap hydro power

Quebec convinced U.S. states to buy its abundant green energy, only to realize it won't be able to produce enough hydro electricity. Read on.

financialpost.com

....

On the other hand we have lots of coal which sells at about 200 USD per tonne

34,590.08 / Coal at 200 USD per tonne = 173 more tonnes of coal per Canadian per year or 0.5 tonnes per day (20 million tonnes per year )
Current Canadian production is 47 million tonnes per year = 129,000 tonnes per day = 0.003 tonnes per day
Australian production is about 422 million tonnes per year = 1,156,000 tonnes per day but there are only 27 million Aussies
Current Australian production is 0.042 tonnes per Aussie per day


And we have uranium at about 69 USD per lb.

34,590.08 / Uranium at 69 USD per lb = 500 more lbs of uranium per year or 1.4 lbs per day (55,000,000 lbs per year or 25,000 tonnes per year)
Current Canadian production is 7351 tonnes (2022) to 11,373 tonnes (2023) per year = 20 to 30 tonnes per day.

...

Double our uranium out put from 1.5 to 3 lbs of uranium per day
Raise our coal out put to Australian levels from 3 kg to 42 kg per day
Raise our oil production to Norwegian levels from 0.1 barrel to 0.4 barrel per day
Raise our gas production to Norwegian levels from 0.5 GJ to 3 GJ per day.
Export directly from Canadian ports.

I reckon that would make a dent in our GDP.

 

[Kirkhill]

There are 117 land ports of entry. How many Leo's do we have again?

Curses! Another cunning plan foiled.

 

[Kirkhill]

I disagree but I accept that you are at least being consistant.

Agreed.

Agreed.

Agreed.

Sort of agree. But to be honest with the US pulling out of certain things Canada will likely as well as without the US those initiatives won’t have any effect.

Depends on what.

Agreed.

Disagree. Yes on increasing CAF capabilities but this current situations shows that the US can and will try and bully us. I would use American hardware for continental defense. Stay intergrated on those and start looking to Europe or else where for other capabilities.

Partly agree. I’d do it differently.

Agreed.

Agreed. Have to be careful with drastic.

Agree but we already have taken steps in ten right direction on both.

No one is doing a tit for tat though. So far this is very targeted and needs to be coordinated with other nations.

Trudeau is essentially gone. Someone else will be at helm.

Reference Net Zero

I am all for burning carbon. I am also comfortable with metering it and accounting for it. I believe in capturing the carbon and putting it to use. Not just burying it in the ground. We are running short of good silicon based construction materials. Time to shift to carbon along with the rest of the organic world. What I wouldn't give for a house that lasts as long as a plastic bottle.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

And one that burns as easily?

 

[Fabius]

"how to combat the unilateral and unwarranted economic attack by a neighbor".

What is your objective by said “combat”?

All those things you dismiss are viable methods to increase Canadian economic resilience and productivity however they are hard strategically oriented long term measures that aren’t immediately emotionally gratifying. Further they are all things that are in Canada’s control and best interest irrespective of how the next months and years play out.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Popcorn at the ready ready for when the markets open tomorrow...

Wall Street girds for market impact of Trump tariffs​

NEW YORK, Feb 2 (Reuters) - Global markets buckled up for a turbulent session on Monday after U.S. President Donald Trump launched a trade war with sweeping tariffs on Canada, Mexico and China that threaten to undermine economic growth and reignite inflation.

U.S. stock futures slumped in early Asian hours, with Nasdaq futures down 2.35% and S&P 500 futures 1.8% lower.

Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau announced plans for retaliatory tariffs on imports of goods from the United States, the first of which also would take effect on Tuesday. Claudia Sheinbaum, Mexico's president, said on social media platform X that she will spell out details of its response on Monday.

https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/tariffs-worry-wall-street-over-earnings-hit-inflation-pressure-2025-02-02/

 

[JLB50]

Just back from the grocery store- already starting to see “made in Canada” shelf labels cropping up. For the first time for me I was specifically attentive to country of origin when buying normal groceries.

My wife usually orders online from our local grocer (Loblaws) prior to pick-up. Today, prior to ordering, she checked into where every item is made. She switched from Florida orange juice to Brazilian. However she had to settle for lettuce from the U.S. Most of the other fruit/vegetables we were able to get from Mexico and Latin America instead of the U.S. and just about everything she needed comes from Canada. Our neighbours are also going out of their way to buy Canadian.

 

[Kirkhill]

Just about nothing on this list is something that can be done rapidly. Even if JT used the EA to force through approval and funding for an energy east pipeline and multiple lng terminals, we'd be well into the next presidential term before they got built. Further, a lot of these idea have nothing at all to do with "how to combat the unilateral and unwarranted economic attack by a neighbor".

So, once again, what is it you think Canada should be doing in the immediate term in response?

Railways -

Already in place.

Useful for transporting lumber, uranium, coal, oil and Compressed Natural Gas (CNG) across Canada to tide water. Dry solids easily transported by sea. Oil is a known quantity. Compressed Natural Gas would require a build out of port facilities to convert it to LNG for shipping.

And Energy East is a heck of a long way round for a short cut. Shortest routes to tide water are via Vancouver/Roberts Bank, Prince Rupert/Kitimat, Churchill/Port Nelson and Moosonee. All served by rail until pipelines can be built.

CNG is a legitimate solution. If we were planning on building a hydrogen economy CNG is considerably easier to manage.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/tourmaline-clean-energy-gas-fuelling-1.7359821

How Is Natural Gas Transported? - Woodway Energy

Understanding how natural gas is transported: From pipelines to LNG carriers, learn the safe transit methods used today.

www.woodwayenergy.com

Natural gas can be transported as CNG in specialized pressurized tank rail cars. Rail provides more delivery options and flexibility than pipelines do, but is better suited for small gas volumes. Also, loading and unloading CNG railcars is time-consuming.

Safety and cost-effectiveness are also concerns with transporting CNG by truck or rail. Road and rail are also weather-dependent. For these reasons, these modes of transportation tend to serve shorter-haul transportation, rather than long distances covered more efficiently via transmission pipelines or LNG tankers.

Despite these challenges, road and rail transport of CNG do provide a valuable solution for delivering natural gas to areas not serviced by pipelines or waterways. This mode of transportation complements other forms of natural gas transportation, ensuring a more diversified and resilient supply chain, capable of meeting the diverse energy needs across diverse regions.

Thinks can happen very fast if there is the political will to do it.

 

[Remius]

Popcorn at the ready ready for when the markets open tomorrow...

Wall Street girds for market impact of Trump tariffs​

NEW YORK, Feb 2 (Reuters) - Global markets buckled up for a turbulent session on Monday after U.S. President Donald Trump launched a trade war with sweeping tariffs on Canada, Mexico and China that threaten to undermine economic growth and reignite inflation.

U.S. stock futures slumped in early Asian hours, with Nasdaq futures down 2.35% and S&P 500 futures 1.8% lower.

Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau announced plans for retaliatory tariffs on imports of goods from the United States, the first of which also would take effect on Tuesday. Claudia Sheinbaum, Mexico's president, said on social media platform X that she will spell out details of its response on Monday.

https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/tariffs-worry-wall-street-over-earnings-hit-inflation-pressure-2025-02-02/

Yep.

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/02/02/stock-market-today-live-updates.html

 

[Kirkhill]

And one that burns as easily?

You mean like wood?