3 OPP Officers Shot-May 11th/ 2023

[Bruce Monkhouse]

It's very good, it adds another layer of transparency and accountability. They are going to be widespread in any industry or occupation with a high risk to the public.

They are very very good for showing the civilian oversight folks who have never done the job, but get to be judges on how it was done, the actual threat and the reason for the force used.

The very first video of a training activation my team did even had me thinking after watching it 'why didn't we just pepperball the living crap out of this guy?' instead of going in.
So better for justification then a bunch of written words on a paper.....

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

They are very very good for showing the civilian oversight folks who have never done the job, but get to be judges on how it was done, the actual threat and the reason for the force used.

The very first video of a training activation my team did even had me thinking after watching it 'why didn't we just pepperball the living crap out of this guy?' instead of going in.
So better for justification then a bunch of written words on a paper.....

We have inward and outward facing cameras with audio as well now. Transport Canada has already come down hard on a few people for things. It's a new World out there and your actions will be scrutinized.

 

[Haggis]

If I were shooting actual home invaders through walls then shot at them as they ran away into the street, I don’t think I’d be getting off…

I think so as well, you don't fire 17 rds in multiple directions and call that self-defence. He clearly had intent to shoot whoever he thought had entered his house. The self-defence argument becomes even weaker once he started shooting out the window at the "threat" that had retreated from the house.

There was a case not too long ago where a guy fired on a fleeing home invader, killing him, and was convicted of murder. I'll try to find it.

The way I read the story, he fired nine rounds through the wall, then fired another 8 rounds out the window at the other Officers who took cover behind their cruisers. He only went in the hallway after firing through the wall and out the window.

Most OPP cruisers in this area are marked. Hard to misidentify them.

Sounds like he probably had a high capacity mag, probably had the weapon improperly stored, and also had ammunition and bombed up Mags readily available.

No mention of the rifle's calibre in the article, but if it was a .22 there's no mag capacity limit (yet) and it could explain both the rate of fire and why the second officer hit in the vest didn't suffer a penetrating gunshot injury from a rifle.

Agreed on the improper storage possibility, though. Haven't seen anything on that charge being laid.

 

[lenaitch]

It's very good, it adds another layer of transparency and accountability. They are going to be widespread in any industry or occupation with a high risk to the public.

They are also gaining traction in other fields.

More Loblaw employees to wear body cameras across Canada, company says | Globalnews.ca

More Loblaw employees across the country will be wearing body cameras as the company is expanding its pilot project to more provinces.

globalnews.ca

Huh, you’re right, I hadn’t thought of that.

I see body worn cameras as a very good thing for the profession.

They are still being rolled out as we speak.

 

[OldSolduer]

We have inward and outward facing cameras with audio as well now. Transport Canada has already come down hard on a few people for things. It's a new World out there and your actions will be scrutinized.

Scrutinized so the lowest person on the pay scale gets the blame.

That is the way it is here in my current line of work.

 

[mariomike]

They are also gaining traction in other fields.

Good for police.

Can't see them being appreciated by our customers in their homes.
Especially when they are naked, partiality clothed, in the bathroom, extremely embarrassed, etc.

Glad my professional time was in the Old World.

 

[Eaglelord17]

There was a case not too long ago where a guy fired on a fleeing home invader, killing him, and was convicted of murder. I'll try to find it.

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.2931936

 

[Haggis]

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.2931936

Very similar circumstances, but the one I was thinking of was more recent.

 

[brihard]

The jury has found Alain Bellefeuille guilty of the murder of OPP Sgt Eric Mueller and the attempted murders of Csts Marc Lauzon and François Gamache-Asselin.

Bellefeuille guilty of murder, attempted murder of OPP officers

Alain Bellefeuille has been found guilty of first-degree murder in the death of Ontario Provincial Police Sgt. Eric Mueller and the attempted murder of constables Marc Lauzon and François Gamache-Asselin.

www.ctvnews.ca

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

The jury has found Alain Bellefeuille guilty of the murder of OPP Sgt Eric Mueller and the attempted murders of Csts Marc Lauzon and François Gamache-Asselin.

Bellefeuille guilty of murder, attempted murder of OPP officers

Alain Bellefeuille has been found guilty of first-degree murder in the death of Ontario Provincial Police Sgt. Eric Mueller and the attempted murder of constables Marc Lauzon and François Gamache-Asselin.

www.ctvnews.ca

Good.....be nice if we still had spots where the only sunshine you got was thrown in via buckets.

 

[KevinB]

The jury has found Alain Bellefeuille guilty of the murder of OPP Sgt Eric Mueller and the attempted murders of Csts Marc Lauzon and François Gamache-Asselin.

Bellefeuille guilty of murder, attempted murder of OPP officers

Alain Bellefeuille has been found guilty of first-degree murder in the death of Ontario Provincial Police Sgt. Eric Mueller and the attempted murder of constables Marc Lauzon and François Gamache-Asselin.

www.ctvnews.ca

Times like this it would be nice if Canada still had the death penalty.

 

[brihard]

Times like this it would be nice if Canada still had the death penalty.

Oh believe me, there’s still a part of me that wishes the system could be trusted with it.

 

[KevinB]

Oh believe me, there’s still a part of me that wishes the system could be trusted with it.

I’m of the opinion that cases like this with very clear intent and beyond a reasonable doubt are a no brainer for a summary execution.

- Bailiff remove the guilty, and put a round into the back of his head sort of thing.

 

[captloadie]

I was following this case, and while not surprised with a guilty verdict, I was surprised that it was for 1st Degree murder. I would not have been surprised with manslaughter, or maybe 2nd degree. I didn't think the evidence that I heard pointed to him laying in wait with the intent to kill, but there may have been much that was not reported on previous to the guilty announcement.

 

[dapaterson]

I was following this case, and while not surprised with a guilty verdict, I was surprised that it was for 1st Degree murder. I would not have been surprised with manslaughter, or maybe 2nd degree. I didn't think the evidence that I heard pointed to him laying in wait with the intent to kill, but there may have been much that was not reported on previous to the guilty announcement.

The criminal code dictates that the killing of a police officer is first degree murder.

 

[captloadie]

The criminal code dictates that the killing of a police officer is first degree murder.

I thought that might be the case. I almost posed the question about had it been three individuals not belonging to a police service (EMTs, volunteer FF, concerned neighbours, etc.) what the charges would have been, but thought I might get the exact answer you provided.

Does the criminal code specify that they must be acting on duty in an authorized and legal capacity (which they were in this case)?

 

[dapaterson]

CC 231(4) specifies they must be acting in the course of their duties.

 

[lenaitch]

I was following this case, and while not surprised with a guilty verdict, I was surprised that it was for 1st Degree murder. I would not have been surprised with manslaughter, or maybe 2nd degree. I didn't think the evidence that I heard pointed to him laying in wait with the intent to kill, but there may have been much that was not reported on previous to the guilty announcement.

I didn't follow it that closely but an avenue of defence was that he thought it was a home invasion or something similar and was defending himself. It seems the jury thought otherwise. His words caught on Mueller's body camera didn't help his case.

In a jury trial, matters of fact are decided by the jury (the judge deals with matters of law and procedure). Although I expect an appeal, appeals based on a matter of fact alone are almost impossible in Canada.

 

[brihard]

I didn't follow it that closely but an avenue of defence was that he thought it was a home invasion or something similar and was defending himself. It seems the jury thought otherwise. His words caught on Mueller's body camera didn't help his case.

In a jury trial, matters of fact are decided by the jury (the judge deals with matters of law and procedure). Although I expect an appeal, appeals based on a matter of fact alone are almost impossible in Canada.

Appealing a jury verdict is also considerably harder. A judge only trial usually results in a written verdict decision that is fodder for appeal. A jury does not; you don’t get to know why they decided as they did. An appeal of a jury verdict basically has to focus on errors of law along the way (such as evidence admissibility or some other Charter matter), or else by arguing some error on the instructions to the jury. Not to say there’s nothing else that can feed an appeal, but those are the big ones.