The Reconnaissance Brigade

[KevinB]

As promised from the C7 Modernization thread.

I have decided to make a separate thread for at least my take on the Future Armored Division’s Reconnaissance Brigade.

Some caveats: I see the Division as the smallest viable ‘self contained’ entity. The enablers required for Peer or Near Peer conflict require a breadth of forces that is beyond the Combined Arms forces of the late 20th Century. Not to say a smaller military needs to deploy an entire division, but that Brigade’s will not be able to operate on their own, and need the umbrella from Division (yes arguably that was needed anyway in peer/near peer fighting).

A lot of this is taken from Jack Watling’s The Arms of the Future (highly recommended) as well as various modernization projects across NATO and US specific Cross Functional Teams liking at future force models.

I dislike several of Dr Watlings monikers for forces. What he calls the Maneuver Force, I prefer to call Reconnaissance, and I split that into Light Reconnaissance, Cavalry, and Support (which for this includes a HQ)

Where I differ from a lot of other plans is I have Mixed Companies of Light Recce and Calvary. Basically 1 Light Recce Platoon and 2 Platoons of Calvary (call them troops if you want, I’m agnostic) and a HQ Platoon.

I see the force as a symbiotic entity that needs the mix to work effectively in a Near Peer LSCO therefore mixed formations are the best way to create that synergy.



Light Reconnaissance Detachment on a 12-14 person detachment. You may notice it sort of looks like an Army Special Operations Detachment Alpha.

4 Det’s to a Platoon in the Reconnaissance Company

Light Vehicles are key as this force isn’t designed to be in contact. Each Detachment would have 4 4x4 vehicles. I’m somewhat agnostic to naming vehicles, but I’ll go with the Chevy ISV with some Recce specific alterations. I would also have 4 Electric Bikes that are hung in a bracket on the rear of the vehicle.

All personnel would be at least basic Infantry Recce patrolman qualified.
1) Det Commander
2)Signaler / I believe at this point that it needs to be a much more trained individual than a Recce Patrolman with a radio, my ideal candidate would be an 18E Comms Sgt, but I doubt the CA would send a bunch of folks to Bragg for the SF Comms course. But they need to know how to troubleshoot the various communications assets the team has for voice and data.
3)MFC/FOO Tech:
4-5) Stinger SHORAD Team
6-7) Javelin Team
(I use Stinger and Javelin for a reason as both can use the LWCLU and this give a redundant launcher option if one is damaged, but also gives the small team flexibility to focus towards air or ground should the threat require it, and both a fire and forget as the goal of the teams isn’t to get into prolonged contact).
8) Pioneer/Engineer both for demolitions, but also for bridge and other technical surveys.
9) Combat Medic: not a fully 18D, but more like the Ranger Medic which is a 3 month course that is basically a T3C on steroids.
10-11) Sniper Team
12) UAS Operator
That was 12, then I have two of the nice to have positions, but I could live without them in certain situations.
13) Interpreter (as applicable)
14) HumInt Specialist

I have been trying to be realistic as to the extent of what can expect in a non SOF environment, and I don’t think I’m asking too much, close, but…

The Calvary Platoon (note I am going this by Platoon initially as I have mixed Platoons in the Recce Coy’s as they are necessarily complementary entities that should be employed together in a Near Peer type scenario.

I base the Cav Platoon on a 6 vehicle force. They can split into 2 groups of three for dispersed operations and group back together as a Platoon or Coy- with the Second Platoon as required.

A tracked ‘IFV’ for purposes of discussion I would opt for the GDLS XM-30 MICV submission. All vehicles have mast mounting options, though at this time I can only see a need for three mast vehicles.
2 Surveillance POD (EO/IO active and passive systems)
1 Directional Antenna
2 Cannon vehicles with Mine Plows, 1 with a
The only other differences are the turrets
2 are 40-50mm automatic cannons (I’m more preferential to the 40mm CTA cannon from Ares but.. they also have 4 Javelin NLOS missiles (I wouldn’t kick the Hellfire out of the equation either, but having seen the Hellfire reload on an IFV, I’m more willing to accept a 6km range limit for these systems than the boondoggle that can occur manually reloading Hellfire to gain an extra 6km.
1 is a 35mm Cannon and DE AD/C-UAS turret
1 is a 35mm Cannon and RBS-70 AD/C-UAS turret
2 are 120mm mortar turrets.

Watling has his screening platoon on a 4 vehicle system, but he anticipates that the cannon IFV can conduct counter UAS, where I’m of the opinion a dedicated turret will be needed to take feed data for reliable hard kill.

I also don’t see much of a viability for dismounts in a 4 vehicle packet as the mortar versions will have at most 2 with the ammo load. I’m seeing at most 4 in the other versions , considering one wants to be able to have reach back high bandwidth comms, and reasonable supplies of stores. I also want room in extremis if there is a need to cross load due to vehicle losses, or extraction of the Light Recce Det’s if things go sideways badly.


I mentioned the 3/2 split but when operationing as a formed unit see them operating in a 2-2-2 split with a Cannon system and AD system moving and then supporting the next cannon and AD and the Mortars moving as one and moving ones the other two are set. The Light Recce Det’s will have been looking for any significant enemy, as well as UAS, GeoSpacial assets and EW systems should have any major enemy located. These teams will be operating in contested territory covered by friendly sensors, but also sometimes detected by small unit infiltrators or UAS.

So 18 vehicle crew: and 20 dismounts for LAS, UAS launch and Recovery, maintenance. As well as:
Manpad team
Sniper Team
Medic team
Signallers
Engineer Recce Sgt

Unlike Walting, I didn’t split the Armored Recce and Infantry. But combined them into a Cav force that I see 2 Cav platoons operating in a second echelon to the Light Recce Platoon. The Light Recce is designed to remain hidden, while the Cav will engage (and be engaged) but mobility and camouflage is generally their primary defense.


HQ and Support Platoon.
I’m going to use the AMPV as the primary vehicle for the CP’s, EW Section, AD Vehicle, Engineering assets, Medical Evacuation, Medical Transport and Recovery/Fitter tasks. The Logistics section would be via PALS 10x10 vehicles, fuel, food, ammunition etc being palletized (and while there are some advantages to a dedicated fuel bowser vehicle, it is also a single point of failure.

More to follow but my plane is boarding.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I've been out of the game too long and haven't kept up very well, to offer anything up. Well, besides that it sounds feasible and was a good read. Tanks Kev.

 

[FJAG]

Couple of thoughts.

For the light recce det. I see a lot of specialization but only a little cross qualification unlike in a SOF Det A where there are two of each comms, ops, engr, med, wpns so that a casualty can be sustained without loosing the capability. It's a little harder to accomplish with this many specialties but you might be able to group them.

For the cav platoon. How large a piece of terrain do you see the platoon covering? My gut reaction was that the mortars (and I still see mortars as dual structured to launch mortar bombs as well as loitering/FPVs) as being in a CS platoon deployed by the light recce coy/squadron. Mortars are counterfire magnets - my spidey sense has me operating them as far away from collateral targets as possible. A platoon, even a recce one, is a relatively tight grouping.

I also would want to fill those spare dismounts slots to better facilitate 24/7, local security, dismounted sp wpns and vehicle maint.

Have a pleasant flight.

 

[PrairieFella]

Couple of thoughts.

For the light recce det. I see a lot of specialization but only a little cross qualification unlike in a SOF Det A where there are two of each comms, ops, engr, med, wpns so that a casualty can be sustained without loosing the capability. It's a little harder to accomplish with this many specialties but you might be able to group them.

For the cav platoon. How large a piece of terrain do you see the platoon covering? My gut reaction was that the mortars (and I still see mortars as dual structured to launch mortar bombs as well as loitering/FPVs) as being in a CS platoon deployed by the light recce coy/squadron. Mortars are counterfire magnets - my spidey sense has me operating them as far away from collateral targets as possible. A platoon, even a recce one, is a relatively tight grouping.

I also would want to fill those spare dismounts slots to better facilitate 24/7, local security, dismounted sp wpns and vehicle maint.

Have a pleasant flight.

The frontage of a platoon/troop like that would be quite small, max 2.5ish km but realistically probably within a kilometer and a half. Command and control is hard as shit for an armoured platoon/troop on the best of days, so the troop leader tends to try and keep everything within range of cover by fire from the rest of the troop. Mortars would be better served and more easily adjusted on to targets by being their own troop with a cavalry squadron, it is an interesting thought though to have them internal to the platoon.

@KevinB, interesting concept on the whole but I wonder if it's too specialized for what it needs to be. Your dets are hyper specialized which can have its legitimate uses but sometimes it's more than enough to just have a Rifleman #2 on my mud recce patrol. That said, we've been out of the recce game in the RCAC for a while and while I was pretty proficient at our version of recce at the time, I'm not going to pretend my skillset was anything near what a recce patrolman/pathfinder type would know about the intricacies of close recce.

 

[OldSolduer]

I read the title as “The Renaissance Brigade “

 

[GK .Dundas]

I read the title as “The Renaissance Brigade “

I like it!

 

[Halifax Tar]

As promised from the C7 Modernization thread.

I have decided to make a separate thread for at least my take on the Future Armored Division’s Reconnaissance Brigade.

Some caveats: I see the Division as the smallest viable ‘self contained’ entity. The enablers required for Peer or Near Peer conflict require a breadth of forces that is beyond the Combined Arms forces of the late 20th Century. Not to say a smaller military needs to deploy an entire division, but that Brigade’s will not be able to operate on their own, and need the umbrella from Division (yes arguably that was needed anyway in peer/near peer fighting).

A lot of this is taken from Jack Watling’s The Arms of the Future (highly recommended) as well as various modernization projects across NATO and US specific Cross Functional Teams liking at future force models.

I dislike several of Dr Watlings monikers for forces. What he calls the Maneuver Force, I prefer to call Reconnaissance, and I split that into Light Reconnaissance, Cavalry, and Support (which for this includes a HQ)

Where I differ from a lot of other plans is I have Mixed Companies of Light Recce and Calvary. Basically 1 Light Recce Platoon and 2 Platoons of Calvary (call them troops if you want, I’m agnostic) and a HQ Platoon.

I see the force as a symbiotic entity that needs the mix to work effectively in a Near Peer LSCO therefore mixed formations are the best way to create that synergy.



Light Reconnaissance Detachment on a 12-14 person detachment. You may notice it sort of looks like an Army Special Operations Detachment Alpha.

4 Det’s to a Platoon in the Reconnaissance Company

Light Vehicles are key as this force isn’t designed to be in contact. Each Detachment would have 4 4x4 vehicles. I’m somewhat agnostic to naming vehicles, but I’ll go with the Chevy ISV with some Recce specific alterations. I would also have 4 Electric Bikes that are hung in a bracket on the rear of the vehicle.

All personnel would be at least basic Infantry Recce patrolman qualified.
1) Det Commander
2)Signaler / I believe at this point that it needs to be a much more trained individual than a Recce Patrolman with a radio, my ideal candidate would be an 18E Comms Sgt, but I doubt the CA would send a bunch of folks to Bragg for the SF Comms course. But they need to know how to troubleshoot the various communications assets the team has for voice and data.
3)MFC/FOO Tech:
4-5) Stinger SHORAD Team
6-7) Javelin Team
(I use Stinger and Javelin for a reason as both can use the LWCLU and this give a redundant launcher option if one is damaged, but also gives the small team flexibility to focus towards air or ground should the threat require it, and both a fire and forget as the goal of the teams isn’t to get into prolonged contact).
8) Pioneer/Engineer both for demolitions, but also for bridge and other technical surveys.
9) Combat Medic: not a fully 18D, but more like the Ranger Medic which is a 3 month course that is basically a T3C on steroids.
10-11) Sniper Team
12) UAS Operator
That was 12, then I have two of the nice to have positions, but I could live without them in certain situations.
13) Interpreter (as applicable)
14) HumInt Specialist

I have been trying to be realistic as to the extent of what can expect in a non SOF environment, and I don’t think I’m asking too much, close, but…

The Calvary Platoon (note I am going this by Platoon initially as I have mixed Platoons in the Recce Coy’s as they are necessarily complementary entities that should be employed together in a Near Peer type scenario.

I base the Cav Platoon on a 6 vehicle force. They can split into 2 groups of three for dispersed operations and group back together as a Platoon or Coy- with the Second Platoon as required.

A tracked ‘IFV’ for purposes of discussion I would opt for the GDLS XM-30 MICV submission. All vehicles have mast mounting options, though at this time I can only see a need for three mast vehicles.
2 Surveillance POD (EO/IO active and passive systems)
1 Directional Antenna
2 Cannon vehicles with Mine Plows, 1 with a
The only other differences are the turrets
2 are 40-50mm automatic cannons (I’m more preferential to the 40mm CTA cannon from Ares but.. they also have 4 Javelin NLOS missiles (I wouldn’t kick the Hellfire out of the equation either, but having seen the Hellfire reload on an IFV, I’m more willing to accept a 6km range limit for these systems than the boondoggle that can occur manually reloading Hellfire to gain an extra 6km.
1 is a 35mm Cannon and DE AD/C-UAS turret
1 is a 35mm Cannon and RBS-70 AD/C-UAS turret
2 are 120mm mortar turrets.

Watling has his screening platoon on a 4 vehicle system, but he anticipates that the cannon IFV can conduct counter UAS, where I’m of the opinion a dedicated turret will be needed to take feed data for reliable hard kill.

I also don’t see much of a viability for dismounts in a 4 vehicle packet as the mortar versions will have at most 2 with the ammo load. I’m seeing at most 4 in the other versions , considering one wants to be able to have reach back high bandwidth comms, and reasonable supplies of stores. I also want room in extremis if there is a need to cross load due to vehicle losses, or extraction of the Light Recce Det’s if things go sideways badly.


I mentioned the 3/2 split but when operationing as a formed unit see them operating in a 2-2-2 split with a Cannon system and AD system moving and then supporting the next cannon and AD and the Mortars moving as one and moving ones the other two are set. The Light Recce Det’s will have been looking for any significant enemy, as well as UAS, GeoSpacial assets and EW systems should have any major enemy located. These teams will be operating in contested territory covered by friendly sensors, but also sometimes detected by small unit infiltrators or UAS.

So 18 vehicle crew: and 20 dismounts for LAS, UAS launch and Recovery, maintenance. As well as:
Manpad team
Sniper Team
Medic team
Signallers
Engineer Recce Sgt

Unlike Walting, I didn’t split the Armored Recce and Infantry. But combined them into a Cav force that I see 2 Cav platoons operating in a second echelon to the Light Recce Platoon. The Light Recce is designed to remain hidden, while the Cav will engage (and be engaged) but mobility and camouflage is generally their primary defense.


HQ and Support Platoon.
I’m going to use the AMPV as the primary vehicle for the CP’s, EW Section, AD Vehicle, Engineering assets, Medical Evacuation, Medical Transport and Recovery/Fitter tasks. The Logistics section would be via PALS 10x10 vehicles, fuel, food, ammunition etc being palletized (and while there are some advantages to a dedicated fuel bowser vehicle, it is also a single point of failure.

More to follow but my plane is boarding.

What does your support organization look like ? Who is feeding them ? Maintaining their kit ? What does the sustainment force of this organization look like ?

 

[OldSolduer]

What does your support organization look like ? Who is feeding them ? Maintaining their kit ? What does the sustainment force of this organization look like ?

THOSE are very good questions. We will make a soldier out of you yet my Jedi friend for the Renaissance Brigade

 

[Halifax Tar]

THOSE are very good questions. We will make a soldier out of you yet my Jedi friend for the Renaissance Brigade

Id be in with two feet!

 

[MilEME09]

THOSE are very good questions. We will make a soldier out of you yet my Jedi friend for the Renaissance Brigade

Well your Renaissance Brigade will need a company of Artisans, a Company of Tailors, a Farrier Company to make up your CSS battalion

 

[OldSolduer]

Thespians as well

 

[KevinB]

What does your support organization look like ? Who is feeding them ? Maintaining their kit ? What does the sustainment force of this organization look like ?

Sorry I’ve been out of pocket for the last week.

Some of my stuff I was working on for this is apparently FOUO or worse so I’ve needed to go back and scrub some stuff.


My basic premise is that the future battlefield is going to be broken up in to several zones.
Much like the AirLand Battle of 1982 set the tone for the US Military till the late 90’s, the current Multi-Domain Operations doctrine is trying to fuse available assets into a joint force that achieves a high degree of fidelity on the battlefield and due to that can act and react faster than the enemy.

While early doctrine had focused on the forward edge of the battle area (FEBA) the GWOT conflicts showed how asymmetric the battlefield can be. Now with the sensors and fires available to a modern force one can see from various world conflicts that mass inside an enemy’s area of observation is extremely difficult.

So for the conflict areas I believe there are going to be at least 5 zones. I color coded them for ease of reference. Depending on assets available to both sides these zones may have dramatically different depths and are not expected to be symmetrical.

Blue control: full sensor dominance and control as well as mobility and the ability to mass forces, basically unrestricted freedom of movement. This requires Corps level assets of EW, Cyber, GeoSpacial as well as national level assets to blind enemy systems as well as ‘regulate’ neutral party sensors. Or heavily defended by Anti Access, Area Denial methods that they are ‘safe zones’. This area may still be inside enemy LRPF and so OPSEC, PERSEC need to be adhered to by friendly forces (don’t post your BN’s location on Twitter) as well civilian population will need to either be locked out from abilities to send data, or encouraged and monitored to ensure that positions are not disclosed.

Green control: sensor dominance and control, some area at risk from enemy counters, and localized enemy sensor penetrations may occur. Like the Blue Zone, security precautions need to be taken, but any sort of massing will need to be done covered by defensive systems.

Yellow Zone: the “no man’s” land, where both sides have sensor data, and any sort of massing will be immediately detected and fired upon. This is the zone where the Reconnaissance forces need to operate.

Orange Zone: limited Blue Force sensor ability (heavily reliant on friendly geospatial intelligence as well as long range radar) it is the enemy equivalent of the Green Zone. Extremely hazardous to ground forces. Some penetration can be supported by localized applications of national level assets to disrupt or damage enemy sensor capabilities

Red Zone: As an American I am not accepting of any enemy having a Red zone, but for purposes of this discussion it’s the equivalent of the friendly Blue Zone.


I can’t talk to any specifics of sensor defeat outside of kinetic means, and unfortunately a large part of discussing the ‘sensor’ battle requires knowledge of various radar systems, long range imaging, various methods of GeoSpatial Int and analysis , Communications (of various types), and knowledge of the electromagnetic spectrum. A lot of which as admittedly beyond my knowledge other than a rudimentary level, and seeing and observing things.


In my theoretical Recon Bde, it is an overlapping system of echelons. But the goal is a Recce Coy supporting a Combined Arms BN. The Recce BN supports a Bde, etc

The Lt Recce Platoon Det’s are ‘supported’ by the 2 Cav Platoons in the Recce Coy



Light Recce operates in the Yellow Zone, it’s not an engagement force, the Det’s are there to mark and report on enemy forces in the Yellow zone, and sometimes the Orange.
The Light Recce Pl HQ conducts resupply from the Calvary Platoons which also operate in the Yellow Zone. The Calvary however are configured to contest enemy forces in the zone. It has enough firepower to easily eliminate small infiltration teams.

On the Defensive the Light Recce and Cav are focused on intelligence gathering as well as coordinating with Fires to degrade enemy forces and sensors. If under active attack by an advancing force the Light Recce teams will withdraw and extract themselves supported by higher assets, the Cav however will attempt to delay, conducting a mobile defense either back to friendly defensive positions (outside the original yellow zone) or towards another Recce Coy’s AO in the Yellow zone, with either options designed to channel the enemy into prepared KZ’s or at least less favorable conditions.


MTF

 

[KevinB]

I decided I needed to make a Support Platoon Separate from the HQ Platoon in my Recce Coy - and spit the HQ and Support Coy in the Bn as well -- also I needed to change some stuff up in my little ORBAT for them.

It is also getting very ungainly - so I will need to figure out where to cut.

I don't have any integral FIRES outside the Mortars in the CAV, the AD and C-UAS assets in Lt Recce, CAV and Support Platoons as well.
The main aspect is the comms linkages back to the Div Fires Bde.

HQ Platoon.
HQ Team
2x AMPV CP (Main and Alt)
1x AMPV SHORAD vehicle
1x AMPV MRAD AD vehicle

EW Section
3 x AMPV EW
1x AMPV SHORAD AD Vehicle

Engineering Section
2 x AMPV w/ Dozer Blade and Auger
2 x AMPV w/ Trench Cutter and Side Hoe Bucket


Support Platoon
Platoon HQ
2 x AMPV CP

Medical Section
2x AMPV Medical Evacuation
2x AMPV Medical Transport

Recovery/Maintenance Section
2 x AMPV ARV
2 x AMPV MRT

Logistics Section
2 x AMPV SHORAD (Escort Vehicles)
4x PALS 10x10 vehicles: All fuel, food, ammunition etc being palletized (and while there are some advantages to a dedicated fuel bowser vehicle, it is also a single point of failure.

 

[Fabius]

Blue control: full sensor dominance and control as well as mobility and the ability to mass forces, basically unrestricted freedom of movement. This requires Corps level assets of EW, Cyber, GeoSpacial as well as national level assets to blind enemy systems as well as ‘regulate’ neutral party sensors. Or heavily defended by Anti Access, Area Denial methods that they are ‘safe zones’. This area may still be inside enemy LRPF and so OPSEC, PERSEC need to be adhered to by friendly forces (don’t post your BN’s location on Twitter) as well civilian population will need to either be locked out from abilities to send data, or encouraged and monitored to ensure that positions are not disclosed.

Green control: sensor dominance and control, some area at risk from enemy counters, and localized enemy sensor penetrations may occur. Like the Blue Zone, security precautions need to be taken, but any sort of massing will need to be done covered by defensive systems.

Yellow Zone: the “no man’s” land, where both sides have sensor data, and any sort of massing will be immediately detected and fired upon. This is the zone where the Reconnaissance forces need to operate.

Orange Zone: limited Blue Force sensor ability (heavily reliant on friendly geospatial intelligence as well as long range radar) it is the enemy equivalent of the Green Zone. Extremely hazardous to ground forces. Some penetration can be supported by localized applications of national level assets to disrupt or damage enemy sensor capabilities

Red Zone: As an American I am not accepting of any enemy having a Red zone, but for purposes of this discussion it’s the equivalent of the friendly Blue Zone.

I like the breakdown of zones here. This could be very useful conceptually for various items.

In my theoretical Recon Bde, it is an overlapping system of echelons. But the goal is a Recce Coy supporting a Combined Arms BN. The Recce BN supports a Bde, etc

I am not sure I understand what you mean here.
Is the Recon Bde attaching elements to the CA Bn / Bde for them to force employ? Ie replacing the Bde Recce Sqn in a CMBG?

Or is the Recon Bde going to act as a covering force across a Div frontage, fighting it’s own space on behalf of the Div. Sort of the same function that the old Armoured Cav Regiments did for Corps?

 

[KevinB]

I like the breakdown of zones here. This could be very useful conceptually for various items.

I didn’t like some of the 3 zone setups, as it was to cut and dried to me.
So I had to come up with something that seemed logical to me to explain where I envision the role for this construct.

I am not sure I understand what you mean here.
Is the Recon Bde attaching elements to the CA Bn / Bde for them to force employ? Ie replacing the Bde Recce Sqn in a CMBG?

Or is the Recon Bde going to act as a covering force across a Div frontage, fighting it’s own space on behalf of the Div. Sort of the same function that the old Armoured Cav Regiments did for Corps?

Primary your #2, the Bde as Div frontage - but potentially scaleable to the Bde by cutting a Recce BN to it for smaller deployments. It’s hard to try to shoehorn what is realistically a Corps+ asset tasking into a Div unit, but a Corps isn’t a maneuver unit, so the tasking requires a Divisional Sub unit that has Corps and National Level assets tasked in support.

As for the why of the Bde, the best way to explain it is that I see a divergence between Mech Inf and Armor and the Light Infantry and Calvary. I see a way of using the higher demanding skill sets needed to operate in the Yellow zone as a formed Regular Force entity, while cascading tasks to the CAB type formations to PRes heavier elements.

 

[KevinB]

I am struggling with this rework for several reasons.
1) I am not as well versed in Canadian systems anymore as I am with stuff down here.
2) Canada doesn't have the same National Level assets, or Corps Level Enablers as we do down here
3) While I am fairly well versed on what can be applied for NLI missions, I don't see those assets being tasked (or enough capabilities available to task for concurrent Div level operations).

@Infanteer may appreciate that I am becoming a bite and hold believer for a Peer or Near Peer Conflict - as all the maneuver elements will not help you if you cannot neutralize the enemy fires, and friendly fires (at least Long Range systems) will not be able to neutralize the enemy fires and prepared defensive positions unless you have significant sensor advantages. Furthermore as the West doesn't have an infinite numbers of rockets, missiles or shells, you cannot be too liberal with your application of fires.

I am also loathe to commit SOF to the LSCO outside of specific mission sets, so using them as the Recce Elements is a no go.

 

[MilEME09]

I decided I needed to make a Support Platoon Separate from the HQ Platoon in my Recce Coy - and spit the HQ and Support Coy in the Bn as well -- also I needed to change some stuff up in my little ORBAT for them.

It is also getting very ungainly - so I will need to figure out where to cut.

I don't have any integral FIRES outside the Mortars in the CAV, the AD and C-UAS assets in Lt Recce, CAV and Support Platoons as well.
The main aspect is the comms linkages back to the Div Fires Bde.

HQ Platoon.
HQ Team
2x AMPV CP (Main and Alt)
1x AMPV SHORAD vehicle
1x AMPV MRAD AD vehicle

EW Section
3 x AMPV EW
1x AMPV SHORAD AD Vehicle

Engineering Section
2 x AMPV w/ Dozer Blade and Auger
2 x AMPV w/ Trench Cutter and Side Hoe Bucket


Support Platoon
Platoon HQ
2 x AMPV CP

Medical Section
2x AMPV Medical Evacuation
2x AMPV Medical Transport

Recovery/Maintenance Section
2 x AMPV ARV
2 x AMPV MRT

Logistics Section
2 x AMPV SHORAD (Escort Vehicles)
4x PALS 10x10 vehicles: All fuel, food, ammunition etc being palletized (and while there are some advantages to a dedicated fuel bowser vehicle, it is also a single point of failure.

I'd recommend upping your maint MRT numbers, you'd likely want 2 x Recovery vehicles, 2 Veh MRT, 1 Wpns MRT, 1 EO MRT, and 1 Mat MRT w/welding trailer

 

[KevinB]

I'd recommend upping your maint MRT numbers, you'd likely want 2 x Recovery vehicles, 2 Veh MRT, 1 Wpns MRT, 1 EO MRT, and 1 Mat MRT w/welding trailer

Roger that, my BN Main Coy is pretty big (Ill eventually get it posted - I am trying to build an actual visual ORBAT with some text - as opposed to giant walls of text I am currently doing here as well -- as the Coy will bet working in the "hot" zone, I am trying to keep it fairly light - and really just have quick repair or extraction abilities at the Coy.

 

[MilEME09]

Roger that, my BN Main Coy is pretty big (Ill eventually get it posted - I am trying to build an actual visual ORBAT with some text - as opposed to giant walls of text I am currently doing here as well -- as the Coy will bet working in the "hot" zone, I am trying to keep it fairly light - and really just have quick repair or extraction abilities at the Coy.

roger makes sense, given the AD nature you would want an EO team to deal with the AD optics, you could get away with a reduced mixed team of 2 ARV, 1 or 2 veh/Mat MRT combo and 1 Wpns/EO team

 

[FJAG]

I am struggling with this rework for several reasons.
1) I am not as well versed in Canadian systems anymore as I am with stuff down here.
2) Canada doesn't have the same National Level assets, or Corps Level Enablers as we do down here
3) While I am fairly well versed on what can be applied for NLI missions, I don't see those assets being tasked (or enough capabilities available to task for concurrent Div level operations).

I think that this struggle is the result of the CA being a small force which holds itself out with a characteristic of being agile and adaptive.

Being small force means not having the national assets that a larger force has. It means you have to rely on being part of a coalition that supplies those assets and that you fully integrate into those larger forces so as to be able to effectively make use of those assets.

Being a smaller force which also has responsibilities for homeland security means being able to operate with only the national assets that your own country provides for that mission.

That's where I see the problem. The CA cannot be "agile" and "adaptive" enough in a given unit or formation to effectively switch roles. There are doctrine, equipment and training issues that are specific to each. I'm not sure if we've ever actually figured out homeland defence needs in sufficient detail to properly assign assets to the role (I shudder every time I think of Arctic Response Companies - what is really needed are anti-access/area denial systems with an appropriate national policy on when and how they pull the trigger)

All that to say that you need to focus on whatever slice of scenario you favour - which at this point in time needs to be, in part, LSCO in Latvia. And you need to see that in the light of a Canadian led brigade within a multi-national division (with few enablers) and a multinational corps (with few enablers). That makes the problem solving difficult but realistic. One might go so far as to have a contingency plan for an eventual Canadian-led multinational division in the Baltic states. Quite rightly, because of the speculative nature of that role, it should be highly reserve heavy.

IMHO. Whatever the end result is for that scenario, it will be quite different for the homeland security scenario. I'm not sure how much intellectual effort is going into the planning for the continental defence system. Ships - submarines - for sure. UAV reconnaissance and fighter based strikes - you bet. But army - not so much. We've discussed long range precision rockets in another thread, and I think that's a good start and a logical next step would be something in the nature of a Multi-Domain Task Force (I guess Pan-Domain Task Force in Canadianese) tied in with NORAD. And, yes, a PDTF is a brigade-sized asset and yes, IMHO, a PDTF primarily operates as a recce/strike functioning asset albeit a considerably different one than whatever we put into Europe.

So. Long story short. I see the need for two distinct "armies" for Canada. One "army" based around the core of a possible multi-national division (with sufficient sustainment/reinforcement/replacement capability) operating within a multi-national corps with few enablers. The other "army" should be a division (formed around a PDTF recce/strike brigade) tied in to both NORAD and US Northern Command relying on both Canadian and US national level defence enablers with sufficient "manoeuvre" brigades and sustainment resources structured for operations in Canada.

(All of which makes me rethink that my two division army structure needs some major fine tuning but is workable.

@Infanteer may appreciate that I am becoming a bite and hold believer for a Peer or Near Peer Conflict - as all the maneuver elements will not help you if you cannot neutralize the enemy fires, and friendly fires (at least Long Range systems) will not be able to neutralize the enemy fires and prepared defensive positions unless you have significant sensor advantages. Furthermore as the West doesn't have an infinite numbers of rockets, missiles or shells, you cannot be too liberal with your application of fires.

Very true. Economy of Effort has always been a principle of war here. It still applies. Secondly, the revival and diversification of air defence and Trophy-like systems may, to a large extent, neutralize the drone and ATGM successes of recent years. There may be more scope for manoeuvre in the future but one thing is for sure - we need a much better defence industry and much cleaner/shorter procurement cycles.

I am also loathe to commit SOF to the LSCO outside of specific mission sets, so using them as the Recce Elements is a no go.

I think in terms of special reconnaissance reverting to Long Range Reconnaissance Patrols (LRPPs) and coast watcher type organizations that can go to work in areas where your satellites and radars and UAVs can't or can't efficiently (assuming they survive the anti-satellite/C-UAV/anti-radar battle). Probably as a theatre level resource.

That and those who assigned to conduct sabotage; who can connect with dissidents in enemy territory and foment resistance and sabotage that you are probably already thinkin of. To that I would add a modified form of foreign internal defence. For example training our elements of our own populations in remote northern and coastal communities in the operation, servicing and defence of military systems that need to be operated in the north and on the coasts to expand our surveillance capabilities.

We can't keep our special forces on stand-by training and waiting for a door kicker hostage rescue opportunity. (And yes, yes, I know - they do a lot more than that) All that I'm saying is we need to examine if there is a new repertoire of activities (beyond the core counter-terrorism/counter-insurgency that has become SOF's bread and butter) that are more relevant to today's needs.

You're right though. They aren't merely a part of the recce/cavalry doctrine.