All Things AB Separatism (split fm Liberal Minority Government 2025 - ???)

[Fishbone Jones]

Where do you draw the line though? Employment due to putting co-workers at risk? Medical care due to putting other patients at risk? Emergency response? Slippery slopes to go down and the more you isolated and push people to the side the higher the pressure on the zealotry aspects.

Super frustrated at the measles thing though in AB. Can pretty much draw a line...despite being 8 hours and 6 hours away from the two areas where it might be at. And I live in a riding where a blue rock will be acclaimed a liberal thinker and not right wing enough....but most understand the value of vaccinations.

Shouldn't those co-workers, EMS and patients be vaccinated already? What risk would they be at? I mean, that's the whole reason for vaccinations, isn’t it?

 

[dapaterson]

Vaccination works at a population, not individual, level.

Free riders reate risk for everyone.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Vaccination works at a population, not individual, level.

Free riders reate risk for everyone.

Not to bring the discussion too far off track but it's interesting where the line for "my body my choice" starts and stops.

 

[Remius]

Vaccination works at a population, not individual, level.

Free riders reate risk for everyone.

The fact that we are seeing medieval diseases we eradicated making resurgences because people are not only misinformed but also inculcated with anti science belief and distrust in experts demonstrates that very risk in real time.

 

[Quirky]

But why stop there? We can do better. Here, if you want to scale up:

- all autos will be speed governed and GPS monitored to never exceed posted limits, speed kills

- social credit score based on your political beliefs and climate footprint, this score is the basis for your level of access to other life privileges such as crossing borders, or access to public/private venues

A new Alberta Federal government will ultimately decide.

 

[foresterab]

Shouldn't those co-workers, EMS and patients be vaccinated already? What risk would they be at? I mean, that's the whole reason for vaccinations, isn’t it?

Understand the point your're making. And I'm cool with some folks who medically can't get certain immunizations due to allergies or X valid reason. But I think back to even under COVID times and despite a fully immunized team doing to the mental calculations of which team member that might get sick still from this can best withstand it. An elderly colleague with a spouse at home with serious medical conditions was tapped out and younger team members stepped in...just in case bad things happen.

Somewhere in there is also the line that due to your personal beliefs you've chosen to make yourself a potential hazard to others...but expect everyone to support your independence.

Poverty related issues or prior areas of the world lived without options I have much more sympathy for but frankly basic immunizations should be a requirement of Permanent Residency/Immigration/Student Visas.

 

[Remius]

A new Alberta Federal government will ultimately decide.

Led by its new president and chief of staff.

 

[lenaitch]

This is the area I think we - society - needs to be careful.
Do we refuse them health care? IMO we can’t.

If we refuse the unvaccinated HC then who else can we deny HC to? Smokers? The morbidly obese? Suntanners who develop skin cancer? Alcoholics with liver issues?

The one difference with those examples is smoking, obesity and skin cancer are not contagious; although some may argue second hand smoke so there's that.

The whole foundation of vaccines and public health is to protect both the individual and the public.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Understand the point your're making. And I'm cool with some folks who medically can't get certain immunizations due to allergies or X valid reason. But I think back to even under COVID times and despite a fully immunized team doing to the mental calculations of which team member that might get sick still from this can best withstand it. An elderly colleague with a spouse at home with serious medical conditions was tapped out and younger team members stepped in...just in case bad things happen.

Somewhere in there is also the line that due to your personal beliefs you've chosen to make yourself a potential hazard to others...but expect everyone to support your independence.

Poverty related issues or prior areas of the world lived without options I have much more sympathy for but frankly basic immunizations should be a requirement of Permanent Residency/Immigration/Student Visas.

I don’t think covid vaccinations are a valid point of discussion. There have been so many lies, misinformation, conspiracy theories and other made up shit that they called science, as to make anything to do with them suspect. It'll be years before we know the extent of whatever damage they did and the actual truth behind them.

Let's just stick to our know, effective vaccinations like polio, mumps, measles, etc.

Personally, I think anyone coming to Canada, unless medically exempt, should be required to take the full battery of required vaccinations. If you don’t want to get vaccinated, you don’t want into Canada bad enough to follow our rules. Religion and ignorance are not a reason to put the community at risk.

 

[brihard]

Personally, I think anyone coming to Canada, unless medically exempt, should be required to take the full battery of required vaccinations. If you don’t want to get vaccinated, you don’t want into Canada bad enough to follow our rules. Religion and ignorance are not a reason to put the community at risk.

I’d be completely fine with this, with proof required before departure and verified on arrival. And if proof cannot be verified on arrival, receive the vaccines or turn around and go back.

 

[brihard]

Alberta held byelections last night; as expected, Naheed Nenshi, NDP leader, now has a seat in legislature. Maybe he’ll start showing some signs of life now.

More significantly, Cam Davies, the leader of the Alberta Republic Party, was only able to achieve a third place finish of about 19%, well behind UCP and behind the NDP in Olds - Didsbury - Three Hills, a quite rural riding that’s probably a decent bellwether for separatist support in rural Alberta. It suggests that there’s little danger of a provincial separatist party gaining power in the near to mid term.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Alberta held byelections last night; as expected, Naheed Nenshi, NDP leader, now has a seat in legislature. Maybe he’ll start showing some signs of life now.

More significantly, Cam Davies, the leader of the Alberta Republic Party, was only able to achieve a third place finish of about 19%, well behind UCP and behind the NDP in Olds - Didsbury - Three Hills, a quite rural riding that’s probably a decent bellwether for separatist support in rural Alberta. It suggests that there’s little danger of a provincial separatist party gaining power in the near to mid term.

That riding is where Gordon Kesler won a byelection in 1982 in the separatist Western Canada Concept Party. If the Alberta Republic Party could only do 19% there today…that is pretty much their ceiling for voters.

 

[IKnowNothing]

That riding is where Gordon Kesler won a byelection in 1982 in the separatist Western Canada Concept Party. If the Alberta Republic Party could only do 19% there today…that is pretty much their ceiling for voters.

More significantly, Cam Davies, the leader of the Alberta Republic Party, was only able to achieve a third place finish of about 19%, well behind UCP and behind the NDP in Olds - Didsbury - Three Hills, a quite rural riding that’s probably a decent bellwether for separatist support in rural Alberta. It suggests that there’s little danger of a provincial separatist party gaining power in the near to mid term.

Devils advocate- how much of that result can be explained by Smith's continuous game of footsie with the separatist movement and the degree to which separatism has found support in the UCP? Why vote for the brash fringe underdog if you think the ruling party is tacking in that direction?

 

[SeaKingTacco]

N

Devils advocate- how much of that result can be explained by Smith's continuous game of footsie with the separatist movement and the degree to which separatism has found support in the UCP? Why vote for the brash fringe underdog if you think the ruling party is tacking in that direction?

Not really sure, to be honest.

It was a byelection- stakes are low. If voters wanted to send a separatist demand signal, I think they would have.

 

[Blackadder1916]

That riding is where Gordon Kesler won a byelection in 1982 in the separatist Western Canada Concept Party. If the Alberta Republic Party could only do 19% there today…that is pretty much their ceiling for voters.

But it should be noted that in the general election held two and a half months later, Kesler (who didn't keep his campaign promise of moving to the riding, but instead ran in his home riding) had his ass handed to him in the election. The Western Canada Concept candidate who did run in the riding also lost.

Though I had been posted the year previously to Ontario and thus didn't follow that election campaign, in the few years preceding do recall the separatist sentiment in Alberta. It was particularly memorable because there were two members in the fd amb (MCpl and Cpl) very much in the separatist camp, who were not hesitant to make their political views known at work. What I found unusual was that they had both been posted in a short time before from outside the province, with, if my understanding was correct, no previous connection to Alberta. They both released and, though that was a period of much pers turnover, were no loss to the unit.

 

[The Bread Guy]

… Religion and ignorance are not a reason lto put the community at risk.

Does that include Hutterites and Mennonites, too?

 

[MilEME09]

Does that include Hutterites and Mennonites, too?

This right here is the biggest factor behind the measles outbreaks in AB, some rural areas the vaccination rate for measles is as low as 20%.

 

[The Bread Guy]

ANOTHER referendum question in the air?

Alberta Next survey asks if province should withhold social services for immigrants

CALGARY - Whether Alberta should withhold social services from immigrants is among the issues Alberta Premier Danielle Smith is tabling for debate this summer when she travels the province to

www.thecanadianpressnews.ca

From the site, intriguing that separation isn't mentioned as something input is being sought about ...

... although "constitutional changes" could mean almost anything by the time it gets to a question, right?

 

[Blackadder1916]

Does that include Hutterites and Mennonites, too?

This right here is the biggest factor behind the measles outbreaks in AB, some rural areas the vaccination rate for measles is as low as 20%.

Amazing that a combination of 0.8% of the population (Mennonites) and 0.4% (Hutterites) account for such a low vaccination rate. It must be the Mormons then (1.7%); wait, their church leadership came out during the pandemic that it was okay to be vaccinated. [/sarcasm]

 

[HavokFour]

ANOTHER referendum question in the air?

Alberta Next survey asks if province should withhold social services for immigrants

CALGARY - Whether Alberta should withhold social services from immigrants is among the issues Alberta Premier Danielle Smith is tabling for debate this summer when she travels the province to

www.thecanadianpressnews.ca

From the site, intriguing that separation isn't mentioned as something input is being sought about ...
View attachment 94254
... although "constitutional changes" could mean almost anything by the time it gets to a question, right?

I'd call that UCP dogwhistling on full display.

Income Support – Eligibility

To be eligible for Income Support, you must meet a number of criteria.

www.alberta.ca

Age and residency​

You must:

• live in Alberta
• be at least 18 years old
• be a Canadian citizen, permanent resident, refugee or refugee claimant

So who exactly do they wish to exclude? Or is the real goal to break the provinces growth off at the knees?

The second asks whether the province should refuse to provide programs to non-citizens and non-permanent residents "unless they have been granted an Alberta government-approved immigration permit."

EDIT: Some additional, very fun data to look at.

Claims by Country of Alleged Persecution - 2024 - Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada

www.irb-cisr.gc.ca

Unless this is specifically to target refugee's or claimants, people overstaying visas are already ineligible under current rules.