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Foreign Workers: Political/Labour effects (split from 2024 UK rioting thread)

Survey says: keep the changed TFW program, too many are coming in & it's good for biz/bad for housing
 
From today's National Post.



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People line-up to attend a community-wide job fair at the Sudbury Community Arena in Sudbury, Ont. on Wednesday May 7, 2025. Photo by John Lappa/Sudbury Star/Postmedia Network


....

Find the students in that picture.

Note the elderly gent in the rear clutching his resume. Grey haired woman in the front followed by a thirtyish woman.
Additional point of differentiation - the old folks do not have their noses buried in their smart phones.
 
From today's National Post.



View attachment 93509



....

Find the students in that picture.

Note the elderly gent in the rear clutching his resume. Grey haired woman in the front followed by a thirtyish woman.
Additional point of differentiation - the old folks do not have their noses buried in their smart phones.
our local 7/11 style store no longer hires students because they can't sell liquor so that is one job source gone. No one pumps gas anymore so that is a second one gone. The farmers here-about quit hiring students a few years ago except for fruit sorting jobs because they won't work in the heat or for the long hours so that is a third source gone. Big box stores and fast food joints are about all that is left unless you luck into a government job at a park and those go to indigenous, LGBTQ, handicapped, non-Caucasian, girls and guys in that order of priority. Many of the students have never even started a lawnmower let alone gone around the neighbourhood drumming up business so much of their woe is me is their own fault.
 
Old manual push types did a better job, and were good exercise.

Until today I would have argued the toss with you but last week our electric gave up the ghost and the wife decreed we were getting a push mower.

I tried it today.

I have to say it was actually less effort than the electric.... big wheels and no motor makes for an easier day. And no cord either.

I hate admitting she might have been right.... ;)
 
Or
Until today I would have argued the toss with you but last week our electric gave up the ghost and the wife decreed we were getting a push mower.

I tried it today.

I have to say it was actually less effort than the electric.... big wheels and no motor makes for an easier day. And no cord either.

I hate admitting she might have been right.... ;)


Or, just leave the lawn till it's ready for a scythe , if you cant hire a neighbourhood kid. < smile
 
Interesting YouTube video

Both my kids have struggled to find work from time to time over the last 2yrs (19 and 17yr olds). Son has been unable to find FT work this summer and has only been able to pull together a PT gig at a grocery store 10-20hr/week) and another PT that ranges from 0 to 10hrs/week).
Frustrating because he doesn’t qualify for an OSAP and the government expects us parents to make up all shortfalls in funding. Sadly found out that non-OSAP student loans don’t exist for the banks either.
Totally different experience for my daughter who will be attending uni in the US on a partial soccer scholarship. Since she has US citizenship she qualified basically automatically for a 5,500$ student loan, whether she wants it or not. No such thing in Ontario.
Need to stop allowing international students to be able to work off-campus here in Canada. International students in the US can only here employment through the University, not off campus. Should be the same here in Canada. Tens of thousands of jobs for Canadian youths would open up then.
 
Both my kids have struggled to find work from time to time over the last 2yrs (19 and 17yr olds). Son has been unable to find FT work this summer and has only been able to pull together a PT gig at a grocery store 10-20hr/week) and another PT that ranges from 0 to 10hrs/week).
Frustrating because he doesn’t qualify for an OSAP and the government expects us parents to make up all shortfalls in funding. Sadly found out that non-OSAP student loans don’t exist for the banks either.
Totally different experience for my daughter who will be attending uni in the US on a partial soccer scholarship. Since she has US citizenship she qualified basically automatically for a 5,500$ student loan, whether she wants it or not. No such thing in Ontario.
Need to stop allowing international students to be able to work off-campus here in Canada. International students in the US can only here employment through the University, not off campus. Should be the same here in Canada. Tens of thousands of jobs for Canadian youths would open up then.
Your son wanting to work and willing to get his hands dirty would make him an exception. Employers don't even consider students anymore, not because they would rather hire off-shore but because they can't even get applications let alone students who will actually put in a days work. Neighbour had 15 student positions up for grabs and couldn't fill them. Now he has 15 additional Mexicans/Jamaicans to fill the slots and, with the new government arrangement, they are here on 2 year contracts. Now if your son could only check the indigenous box there would be no problem getting funding
 
Frustrating because he doesn’t qualify for an OSAP and the government expects us parents to make up all shortfalls in funding. Sadly found out that non-OSAP student loans don’t exist for the banks either.
Re the bold- are you talking about non-OSAP loans that are as "generous" as OSAP with respect to interest/payment deferral, or just general lending available to students?

I know Meridian currently has a Student LOC available at Prime + 1.50- I assume with parent co-signor like the bank loans used to be. Quick check shows TD also has an SLOC at Prime + 1 with interest only payments while in school
 
Youth unemployment is usually the 'canary in the coal mine' for deeper economic issues...


Gen Z is facing the worst youth unemployment rate in decades. Here is how it's different​

Youth unemployment a 'canary in the coal mine' for broader labour market troubles​


The Canadian labour market has endured a kind of whiplash in recent years.

After pandemic-era restrictions were lifted, companies celebrated with a hiring spree — the economy regained jobs it lost during the crisis and Canadian youth reaped the rewards of a summer job boom.

But employers were soon struggling to find workers and fill postings, a result of the workforce having shrunk during the pandemic. The federal government and public policy experts prescribed higher immigration as an antidote to the shortage, which led to a rise in the Gen Z and millennial working population.

Hiring sentiment "was really high coming out of the pandemic, which probably was never going to last," said Brendon Bernard, a senior economist at Indeed who closely follows youth labour market trends.

As the hiring backlog cleared, other conditions started to slow the economy down, he added.

The onset of a fierce inflation episode in mid-2021 triggered a domino effect: consumers pulled back on spending and the Bank of Canada began an aggressive interest rate hike cycle, leading businesses to delay hiring as economic confidence deteriorated.

Older workers started working second jobs to pay the bills during the affordability crisis. Some experts suspect that the automation of routine tasks could be leading to fewer entry-level opportunities, but there isn't enough data to say how widespread this is.

"As things have turned back and employer appetite has fallen back down to earth, the youth employment situation has weakened," said Bernard.

 
Your son wanting to work and willing to get his hands dirty would make him an exception. Employers don't even consider students anymore, not because they would rather hire off-shore but because they can't even get applications let alone students who will actually put in a days work. Neighbour had 15 student positions up for grabs and couldn't fill them. Now he has 15 additional Mexicans/Jamaicans to fill the slots and, with the new government arrangement, they are here on 2 year contracts. Now if your son could only check the indigenous box there would be no problem getting funding
Just came back from a long weekend visiting my Dad and brother down in Windsor. Always frustrating to see the large amount of unemployment/poverty/rampant drug use that exists now in my old hometown. Sad to read that Windsor once again has the highest unemployment in Canada (10.8%!!) but yet 30km to the south in Kingsville/Leamington thousands upon thousands of FT jobs (with full benefits/pensions) go to Mexicans/Jamaican workers on 2yr contracts that your talking about.

A married couple in Windsor working those jobs can make over 78k/yr and the median house price in 540k, the average price is 565k. At those prices, a family needs an average income of 87k/yr for the average house. So its entirely possible to afford a home in Windsor and work FT picking peppers or tomatoes in Leamington. There is something wrong with the society that we have allowed to occur here in Canada where jobs for an unemployed person making 37-38k/yr go unfilled and we bring in someone from thousands of KM's away to do that job and then we sit back and pay through our taxes for the person already here in Canada to be unemployed and do nothing all day.
 
Re the bold- are you talking about non-OSAP loans that are as "generous" as OSAP with respect to interest/payment deferral, or just general lending available to students?

I know Meridian currently has a Student LOC available at Prime + 1.50- I assume with parent co-signor like the bank loans used to be. Quick check shows TD also has an SLOC at Prime + 1 with interest only payments while in school
I'm talking about the fact that my son doesn't qualify for ANY OSAP funding/loans at all, nothing, nada, zero.

A LOC is not that same as a loan. Where will the student get the money for the monthly interest payment from, which will increase every year as they need to borrow more each year for school?

I guess I'm just used to off fashioned loans, with a structured payment/timeframe. LOC are dangerous tools to give to a 18-20yr old, especially if the parents are the co-signors.
 
Or


Or, just leave the lawn till it's ready for a scythe , if you cant hire a neighbourhood kid. < smile
Grim Reaper Halloween GIF

Dressed like this?? ;)
 
I'm talking about the fact that my son doesn't qualify for ANY OSAP funding/loans at all, nothing, nada, zero.
I feel his pain. Youngest child by a decent stretch = parents only dependant at time of application + parents owning a farm = nothing for IKN

As it was made clear to us all that we were paying our own way (with other "in kind" type supports) that was a kick in the teeth, but I had a feeling it was coming having sat in on my siblings conversations with my parents and heard how the formula impacted them differently.
A LOC is not that same as a loan. Where will the student get the money for the monthly interest payment from, which will increase every year as they need to borrow more each year for school?

I guess I'm just used to off fashioned loans, with a structured payment/timeframe. LOC are dangerous tools to give to a 18-20yr old, especially if the parents are the co-signors.
Those are legitimate concerns, but such is the transition to adulthood. If nothing else a co-signed LOC gives you visibility and a fantastic vehicle for the conversations needed to gradually take off the financial training wheels off and push him out of the nest. Interest is an expense he'd have to budget for to be paid out of his summer wages.
 
Just came back from a long weekend visiting my Dad and brother down in Windsor. Always frustrating to see the large amount of unemployment/poverty/rampant drug use that exists now in my old hometown. Sad to read that Windsor once again has the highest unemployment in Canada (10.8%!!) but yet 30km to the south in Kingsville/Leamington thousands upon thousands of FT jobs (with full benefits/pensions) go to Mexicans/Jamaican workers on 2yr contracts that your talking about.

A married couple in Windsor working those jobs can make over 78k/yr and the median house price in 540k, the average price is 565k. At those prices, a family needs an average income of 87k/yr for the average house. So its entirely possible to afford a home in Windsor and work FT picking peppers or tomatoes in Leamington. There is something wrong with the society that we have allowed to occur here in Canada where jobs for an unemployed person making 37-38k/yr go unfilled and we bring in someone from thousands of KM's away to do that job and then we sit back and pay through our taxes for the person already here in Canada to be unemployed and do nothing all day.

And when your Dad bought an average house in, I am guessing, the 1960s, that house cost closer to 5,400 than 540,000 and he could get a CMHC mortgage on one salary. Line work at the auto plants was particularly valued as a career.

60 years later and we have added two zeroes to the price of a house.

Meanwhile household income of 78,000? Both parents working?

Remove two zeroes to drop 78,000 to 780.
Divide 780 by two and you get 390.

50 weeks a year.
40 hours a week
2000 hours a year

390/2000 = .195

I can guarantee you that in 1965 nobody, least of all an auto worker, was working for 20 cents an hour.
AI tells me that the average wage in Ontario in 1966, the year we came over, was $95.65 a week or $2.39 an hour.
That sounds about right based on what I know of my Dad's experience arriving from the UK into a professional position.
In 1972, my first SIN job was throwing bales of hay for the minimum farm wage of $1.00 an hour.

There is no one single thing that has got our kids into this position. This is the result of a lot of unintended consequences resulting from good intentions and bad decisions.

Is there a fix? Beyond the inclination to put somebody, anybody, up against a wall.
 
Your son wanting to work and willing to get his hands dirty would make him an exception. Employers don't even consider students anymore, not because they would rather hire off-shore but because they can't even get applications let alone students who will actually put in a days work. Neighbour had 15 student positions up for grabs and couldn't fill them. Now he has 15 additional Mexicans/Jamaicans to fill the slots and, with the new government arrangement, they are here on 2 year contracts. Now if your son could only check the indigenous box there would be no problem getting funding
Local millage may differ but what I've noticed very quickly in recent months is that since the TFW tap was turned off there is actually starting to be kids again in the fast food places, check out lines and some entry level jobs. Many of the jobs are still held by newer immigrants but it's starting to trend upwards.

The challange here is that there is limited "entry" level jobs. Logging used to be super manpower intensive 30 years ago...now it's a single operator replacing an entire chainsaw crew. Drilling rigs that used to be dozen plus men...now run with 3. Water truck conveys are replaced by a single man manning a temporary pipeline. Some of this is good as it's safer jobs and much more productive return....but fewer options to break into the job market.

Still tons of jobs but with the high cost of equipment not many companies can afford to train a new equipment operator from scratch. Or a new Class 1 driver needed for a trucking job.

Then add the additional budget pressures most families are facing in recent years and many jobs relying upon disposable income are hurting.

But options do exist. Unfortunately for many youth I still believe there is a large number of jobs decided by knocking on doors, boots and tickets in hand, asking to go to work. Electronic resume submissions only go so far and many employers I know don't post jobs. Skill sets lost in the transition to computer everything I guess...
 
Local millage may differ but what I've noticed very quickly in recent months is that since the TFW tap was turned off there is actually starting to be kids again in the fast food places, check out lines and some entry level jobs. Many of the jobs are still held by newer immigrants but it's starting to trend upwards.

The challange here is that there is limited "entry" level jobs. Logging used to be super manpower intensive 30 years ago...now it's a single operator replacing an entire chainsaw crew. Drilling rigs that used to be dozen plus men...now run with 3. Water truck conveys are replaced by a single man manning a temporary pipeline. Some of this is good as it's safer jobs and much more productive return....but fewer options to break into the job market.

Still tons of jobs but with the high cost of equipment not many companies can afford to train a new equipment operator from scratch. Or a new Class 1 driver needed for a trucking job.

Then add the additional budget pressures most families are facing in recent years and many jobs relying upon disposable income are hurting.

But options do exist. Unfortunately for many youth I still believe there is a large number of jobs decided by knocking on doors, boots and tickets in hand, asking to go to work. Electronic resume submissions only go so far and many employers I know don't post jobs. Skill sets lost in the transition to computer everything I guess...

One of the "good intentions, bad decisions" I referred to was telling people to have fewer kids to save the planet. Fewer kids meant fewer workers which encouraged more automation which put even the smaller number of kids out of work.

Meanwhile fewer kids meant less pension support and fewer people to manage bedpans in old folks homes. We had to start importing people from places who hadn't got the memo about having fewer kids to save the planet.

Much of our traditional industrial and manufacturing base, as you suggest, has now been automated. The jobs that are left are in Starbucks and old folks homes.

....

One other thing, in my entry above I said that nobody in the 1960s was working for 20 cents an hour. Those Mexicans and Jamaicans that are working the fields round Leamington today? Their grandparents were working those same fields picking tobacco and tomatoes for 20 cents an hour.
 
Local millage may differ but what I've noticed very quickly in recent months is that since the TFW tap was turned off there is actually starting to be kids again in the fast food places, check out lines and some entry level jobs. Many of the jobs are still held by newer immigrants but it's starting to trend upwards.
My son works two jobs. One in fast food in the kitchen, the other in a grocery store as a meat clerk. He also volunteers on an ad hoc as needed with a charity.

The challange here is that there is limited "entry" level jobs. Logging used to be super manpower intensive 30 years ago...now it's a single operator replacing an entire chainsaw crew. Drilling rigs that used to be dozen plus men...now run with 3. Water truck conveys are replaced by a single man manning a temporary pipeline. Some of this is good as it's safer jobs and much more productive return....but fewer options to break into the job market.

Still tons of jobs but with the high cost of equipment not many companies can afford to train a new equipment operator from scratch. Or a new Class 1 driver needed for a trucking job.

Then add the additional budget pressures most families are facing in recent years and many jobs relying upon disposable income are hurting.

But options do exist. Unfortunately for many youth I still believe there is a large number of jobs decided by knocking on doors, boots and tickets in hand, asking to go to work. Electronic resume submissions only go so far and many employers I know don't post jobs. Skill sets lost in the transition to computer everything I guess...
Very true. Someone said that if you want to work at Costco, apply online and follow up in person. Not sure how accurate that is but it makes sense.
 
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