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Canada's tanks

Further to the notion of "mortar tanks"

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The Panhard AML-60, a Ferret with a turret and a breech-loading 60 mm mortar, was extensively used by the French, South Africans and Irish, for many years as a recce vehicle.

Why would a Mjolner/Nemo/AMOS not be considered a heavy force version of the same concept?
 
Four

The loader is also responsible for the internal mounted machine guns. Loading, IA & stoppages.

On another note, I don’t know who else here has ever commanded a tank, but there's a fuck ton of shit going on. Operating a command tank and three autonomous robot tanks, would be more than any commander could handle, I would think. Especially if you are fighting the vehicles.

Using recce vehicles within the tank troops? 60 belongs to the Brigade Commander. It is not a Regimental asset in the field.
 
Four

The loader is also responsible for the internal mounted machine guns. Loading, IA & stoppages.

On another note, I don’t know who else here has ever commanded a tank, but there's a fuck ton of shit going on. Operating a command tank and three autonomous robot tanks, would be more than any commander could handle, I would think. Especially if you are fighting the vehicles.

Using recce vehicles within the tank troops? 60 belongs to the Brigade Commander. It is not a Regimental asset in the field.

But what if you are using the tank troops for recce?
 
Or is a Regiment going to be a pure gun tank assembly?
Is it going to be a mailed fist? Or a recce element? Or both?

I guess that my view of tank usage is influenced greatly by my time in Shilo working with the Germans. They thought of panzers in battle groups of no less than two panzer companies acting in concert with an attached panzerjaeger company, a heavy recce element (a platoon of panzers or Marders and/or ATGM dets) for the flanks, and an artillery battery and sometimes a mortar group. Speed and violence.

In my day, like @Fishbone Jones's, the Canadian armoured regiment had a recce squadron but it was really a brigade recce squadron (and then just a troop). At best the regiment had a troop at it's disposal. But that isn't the way that it has to be. Look at an American combined arms battalion which has one or two 14-tank armor companies, two or one IFV companies and a sole scout platoon (for the battalion's use) with almost no organic tail (it comes from the BSB). Brigade recce is done by the ABCT's cavalry.

It's a perfect time to look at the whole structure using basic principles. Canada scrapped all of its heavy elements around the turn of the century, abandoned almost all meaningful heavy armour training for the better part of two decades creating a generation of senior leaders with minimal LSCO experience and has now been exposed to what our most likely opponent's doctrine, TTPs and strengths and weaknesses are. There are scores of new weapon systems and others under development. There are promises of fresh money. It's a great time to design a Cold War Army 2.0 from the ground up. But. . . don't. . . waste. . . time trying to find a consensus. Canadians are real crappy at committee structures that drag simple functions into multi-year programs.

🍻
 
I guess that my view of tank usage is influenced greatly by my time in Shilo working with the Germans. They thought of panzers in battle groups of no less than two panzer companies acting in concert with an attached panzerjaeger company, a heavy recce element (a platoon of panzers or Marders and/or ATGM dets) for the flanks, and an artillery battery and sometimes a mortar group. Speed and violence.

In my day, like @Fishbone Jones's, the Canadian armoured regiment had a recce squadron but it was really a brigade recce squadron (and then just a troop). At best the regiment had a troop at it's disposal. But that isn't the way that it has to be. Look at an American combined arms battalion which has one or two 14-tank armor companies, two or one IFV companies and a sole scout platoon (for the battalion's use) with almost no organic tail (it comes from the BSB). Brigade recce is done by the ABCT's cavalry.

It's a perfect time to look at the whole structure using basic principles. Canada scrapped all of its heavy elements around the turn of the century, abandoned almost all meaningful heavy armour training for the better part of two decades creating a generation of senior leaders with minimal LSCO experience and has now been exposed to what our most likely opponent's doctrine, TTPs and strengths and weaknesses are. There are scores of new weapon systems and others under development. There are promises of fresh money. It's a great time to design a Cold War Army 2.0 from the ground up. But. . . don't. . . waste. . . time trying to find a consensus. Canadians are real crappy at committee structures that drag simple functions into multi-year programs.

🍻
I think its worth mentioning that we should probably charitable and see what comes out of the Army reform project coming next month (Sept already, wow). For all we know, they've been thinking of these sorts of things already.
 
I guess that my view of tank usage is influenced greatly by my time in Shilo working with the Germans. They thought of panzers in battle groups of no less than two panzer companies acting in concert with an attached panzerjaeger company, a heavy recce element (a platoon of panzers or Marders and/or ATGM dets) for the flanks, and an artillery battery and sometimes a mortar group. Speed and violence.

In my day, like @Fishbone Jones's, the Canadian armoured regiment had a recce squadron but it was really a brigade recce squadron (and then just a troop). At best the regiment had a troop at it's disposal. But that isn't the way that it has to be. Look at an American combined arms battalion which has one or two 14-tank armor companies, two or one IFV companies and a sole scout platoon (for the battalion's use) with almost no organic tail (it comes from the BSB). Brigade recce is done by the ABCT's cavalry.

It's a perfect time to look at the whole structure using basic principles. Canada scrapped all of its heavy elements around the turn of the century, abandoned almost all meaningful heavy armour training for the better part of two decades creating a generation of senior leaders with minimal LSCO experience and has now been exposed to what our most likely opponent's doctrine, TTPs and strengths and weaknesses are. There are scores of new weapon systems and others under development. There are promises of fresh money. It's a great time to design a Cold War Army 2.0 from the ground up. But. . . don't. . . waste. . . time trying to find a consensus. Canadians are real crappy at committee structures that drag simple functions into multi-year programs.

🍻

Heavy agreement on the consensus bit. Put one person in charge and let them run with it.

I think its worth mentioning that we should probably charitable and see what comes out of the Army reform project coming next month (Sept already, wow). For all we know, they've been thinking of these sorts of things already.

Looking forwards to seeing developments.....any developments.
 
Four

The loader is also responsible for the internal mounted machine guns. Loading, IA & stoppages.

On another note, I don’t know who else here has ever commanded a tank, but there's a fuck ton of shit going on. Operating a command tank and three autonomous robot tanks, would be more than any commander could handle, I would think. Especially if you are fighting the vehicles.

Using recce vehicles within the tank troops? 60 belongs to the Brigade Commander. It is not a Regimental asset in the field.

Ken Giles enters the chat ;)


"The 75(mm gun) is firing. The 37(mm gun) is firing, but it is traversed round the wrong way. The Browning (machine gun) is jammed. I am saying "Driver, advance" on the A set, and the driver, who can’t hear me, is reversing. And as I look over the top of the turret and see twelve enemy tanks fifty yards away . . . . someone hands me a cheese sandwich."
 
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