2025 Wildfire Season

[dapaterson]

The main reason for the Feds to avoid entering into this space is to avoid having to decide what's more important - a fire threatening Halifax or a fire threatening Moose Jaw.

Give resources to provinces, support inter-provincial cooperation - fantastic way for the feds to address the problem without being drawn into it.

 

[YZT580]

The main reason for the Feds to avoid entering into this space is to avoid having to decide what's more important - a fire threatening Halifax or a fire threatening Moose Jaw.

Give resources to provinces, support inter-provincial cooperation - fantastic way for the feds to address the problem without being drawn into it.

Place an order for 26 DHC515 and place two in each provincial capital. Equal assets to each. They can lend them to each other according to need without having to involve the feds at all.

 

[lenaitch]

Place an order for 26 DHC515 and place two in each provincial capital. Equal assets to each. They can lend them to each other according to need without having to involve the feds at all.

Under federal or provincial ownership?

Two to PEI and two to Ontario? Hmmm.

What would Toronto do with 2 water bombers?

 

[daftandbarmy]

Place an order for 26 DHC515 and place two in each provincial capital. Equal assets to each. They can lend them to each other according to need without having to involve the feds at all.

Most wildfire air assets are usually contracted from service providers by Provincial governments based on annual contracting processes.

Air fleets 'follow the summer' around the world and contract out as required to various national agencies as needed.

 

[YZT580]

Under federal or provincial ownership?

Two to PEI and two to Ontario? Hmmm.

What would Toronto do with 2 water bombers?

provincial ownership thus the capital of the province to place as they wish. For PEI it would provide a source of revenue as they could farm them out whenever. The point being there would be no 'provincial' prejudice. Ottawa would not be in the unenviable position of having to choose between fires in BC and fires in Alberta.

 

[YZT580]

Most wildfire air assets are usually contracted from service providers by Provincial governments based on annual contracting processes.

Air fleets 'follow the summer' around the world and contract out as required to various national agencies as needed.

And there are never enough available at the moment you need them. Its like relying on the CoOp for your shared combine during harvest. All your neighbours are after the same machinery at the same time. Its a good concept and works as a supplement but we sure didn't want to depend on it in September.

 

[dapaterson]

Most wildfire air assets are usually contracted from service providers by Provincial governments based on annual contracting processes.

Air fleets 'follow the summer' around the world and contract out as required to various national agencies as needed.

That's the BC model; not all provinces do the same.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

That's the BC model; not all provinces do the same.

There are various air services models- each tailored for the jurisdiction. The BC model of contracting air services seems to work for them, but other provinces make the Crown owned air service work, too. There is no one right model.

 

[foresterab]

The main reason for the Feds to avoid entering into this space is to avoid having to decide what's more important - a fire threatening Halifax or a fire threatening Moose Jaw.

Give resources to provinces, support inter-provincial cooperation - fantastic way for the feds to address the problem without being drawn into it.

While CIFFC sometimes has to do this triage...more importantly they also have the specifics of each provinces agreements. Not all provinces pull on the same state and international agreements so it's why Maine for example might be supporting NB, Wisconsin is supporting MB, and out west we'll see Washington State.

I do truly appreciate the under represented and hard work that goes on at CIFFC at so many levels...and the fact the federal politics stay out of things for the most part. I'd much rather support their proven success than try to stand up a brand new federal agency with many more cooks involved and confusion occuring.

 

[lenaitch]

provincial ownership thus the capital of the province to place as they wish. For PEI it would provide a source of revenue as they could farm them out whenever. The point being there would be no 'provincial' prejudice. Ottawa would not be in the unenviable position of having to choose between fires in BC and fires in Alberta.

It's probably better to just use existing federal-provincial funding arrangements and let the provinces buy what they like. Maybe PEI would want a couple of Air Tractors. Involving the feds directly leaves us vulnerable to Bombardier drawing a picture of a plane dropping water and declaring they have an existing product and should be allowed to bid.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

It's probably better to just use existing federal-provincial funding arrangements and let the provinces buy what they like. Maybe PEI would want a couple of Air Tractors. Involving the feds directly leaves us vulnerable to Bombardier drawing a picture of a plane dropping water and declaring they have an existing product and should be allowed to bid.

Also know as the “Buffalo Joe” trick.

Showing up at air tanker bid evaluation day (where bidders were supposed to bring a working air tanker to the ramp and their detailed cost estimates) with a picture of an airplane that you did not even own yet and your numbers scribbled on the back of an envelope from the hotel and winning the contract.

Allegedly.

 

[dapaterson]

Also know as the “Buffalo Joe” trick.

Showing up at air tanker bid evaluation day (where bidders were supposed to bring a working air tanker to the ramp and their detailed cost estimates) with a picture of an airplane that you did not even own yet and your numbers scribbled on the back of an envelope from the hotel and winning the contract.

Allegedly.

So... Learned from IMP and Irving I take it?

 

[SeaKingTacco]

So... Learned from IMP and Irving I take it?

More than likely the other way around, given how old Joe is.

 

[foresterab]

Place an order for 26 DHC515 and place two in each provincial capital. Equal assets to each. They can lend them to each other according to need without having to involve the feds at all.

I love the CL-215's. Have only had the CL-415's overhead a few times but also have nothing but good things to say. But it's been primarily in those portions of the country where waterbodies all support efficient cycle drop times for each machine.

Instead of going all in on one airframe...and regardless of what the Federal government wants they're 35? back in the build line up best case behind:
European Union - 22 ordered
Greece - 7 ordered
Portugal - 2 ordered
Manitoba -3 ordered

Awaiting the 515 - Skies Mag

As the frequency of wildfires intensifies across the globe, orders are growing for the much anticipated De Havilland Canada DHC-515 waterbomber.

skiesmag.com

These are mostly to replace existing CL-215 and CL-415 fleets and are mostly owned airframes by each nation/province. Pilot services vary.

I would also heavily look at the Bombardier Dash-8 MRE model as another valuable option:

Saskatchewan orders 4 Dash 8-400 Airtankers - Conair Aerial Firefighting

conair.ca

This is not the model I've seen operated by Conair but another variant....but more importantly it is a more multi-purpose role aircraft that can also be quickly converted for passagers/community evacuations/freight if needed. Saskatchewan has purchased their airframes and contracts the pilot/maintanience services out. Alberta and BC Dash 8's are via contract primarily through Conair.

Or...
There is a significant private AT-802 fleet in New Brunswick - 11 aircraft run by Forest Protection Ltd. Also used in BC and Alberta via contracts issued to Conair. If you're only talking limited capacity then adding two airframes to a place like PEI makes a large amount of sense due to proximity for airframe service/cross training. Same with Nova Scotia as a possible user. I only reference the western provinces as it's a known capability within the country and not an isolated fleet being supported within the nation.

Normally I see tankers like the Dash-8's or L-188's. Also common sights when travelling through BC. But if I'm in say...northern Ontario...the scoopers are king. And if I'm thinking of the Maritimes maybe the -802's make more sense than single orphan fleets not needed/not aligned with local needs.