Informing the Army’s Future Structure

[childs56]

Short of an alien invasion what land threat do you see for Canada?
Because your domestic defense fixation is really unfathomable.

I think Russia and China have both in the near past made threats of trying to lay claim to land up north. But not sure how viable it really is, but not something to ignore completely.

 

[Kirkhill]

Short of an alien invasion what land threat do you see for Canada?
Because your domestic defense fixation is really unfathomable.

And what forces does the US hold at readiness domestically?

And why is your bossman, and his predecessors, asking us to do more domestically?

 

[RangerRay]

And why is your bossman, and his predecessors, asking us to do more domestically?

I would posit that he (and Biden, and Obama, and Dubya, and, and, and…) were asking us to do more externally to share their expeditionary load. We ignored them.

 

[Kirkhill]

Just did some quick figuring based on on-line numbers.

A budget of something between 200 and 500 million CAD would suffice to supply a body of 32,000 with:

Uniforms, PPE, a smart phone, a side arm and a carbine.

A C9 and an M320 GL for each fire team.

A C6, a DMR and a CG84 for every two fire teams

A new Silverado 1500 4x4 Crew Cab every 4 years for every fire team.

....

In a 5% of GDP Universe (100 Billion CAD a year, 400 Billion every 4 years or 1 parliament), those numbers amount to rounding errors.

Ensure the primary reserve has at least those capabilities then you can start building your real army on top.

 

[PrairieFella]

I would posit that he (and Biden, and Obama, and Dubya, and, and, and…) were asking us to do more externally to share their expeditionary load. We ignored them.

Which in all fairness was totally justified. The Americans laid the pressure on heavy for us to join two of the worst geopolitical disasters of recent times, the Vietnam and Iraq Wars.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Just did some quick figuring based on on-line numbers.

A budget of something between 200 and 500 million CAD would suffice to supply a body of 32,000 with:

Uniforms, PPE, a smart phone, a side arm and a carbine.

A C9 and an M320 GL for each fire team.

A C6, a DMR and a CG84 for every two fire teams

A new Silverado 1500 4x4 Crew Cab every 4 years for every fire team.

....

In a 5% of GDP Universe (100 Billion CAD a year, 400 Billion every 4 years or 1 parliament), those numbers amount to rounding errors.

Ensure the primary reserve has at least those capabilities then you can start building your real army on top.

Meanwhile, 80% of Canada....

 

[FJAG]

My aim is to get as many of them into the pipeline as possible regardless of physical condition. I just want to get them engaged and find out who is willing to help and what skills they have that they can contribute. And how they can support the effort.

While legislation isn't sacrosanct, I like to start with what is available off-the-shelf. That means full-timers and part-timers broken into easy to work with classes: primary, supplementary and Canadian Rangers (and yes cadet instructors) One needs a plan as to what the end product is that you want.

Regular is easy - who do I need today and every day. So is Primary - who do I want trained and equipped today at tiered readiness for when I need them tomorrow. So is Supplementary - who do I want to keep around for a while when their term of service as regular and primary is complete. All of those have to be relatively fit.

The class you are looking for as your primary feed stock is the Rangers who we underutilize in the extreme. We need to stop thinking of them as small aboriginal force on snowmobiles in the north. With just a smidgin of imagination and a pipeline to leadership and equipment you can turn them into a cheap multi-purpose force throughout Canada.

Try as I might, I can't find a budget line for them but it has to be the lowest human resource cost per annum, per capita. There's a lot of room as to how we utilize and administer them.

Just don't touch my minimum funding requirements and ensure that there is sufficient kit in warehouses to let the willing contribute usefully. And civilian gear will allow a lot of good work to be done.

No problem but you really need to know the size of the force and its roles in order to build the right stocks and secured warehouses and compounds etc. - do we need pickups, buses, rifles, C-UAV etc etc?

Don't start counting tanks first. Start with counting pickemup trucks.

Like all things in life you need priority lists, budgets, and plans. We're all talking revolutionizing structure to organizations that have had few original thoughts in decades and tend to fine tune the familiar. Good luck.

 

[RangerRay]

Which in all fairness was totally justified. The Americans laid the pressure on heavy for us to join two of the worst geopolitical disasters of recent times, the Vietnam and Iraq Wars.

But not just there, but in many other theatres. For instance, we have been pressured a lot by Washington lately to take up the mantle in Haiti. And usually when our answer to Vietnam and Iraq was “No”, their next ask is “Where can you deploy so we can redeploy our forces?” I’m sure they would be tickled pink if we deployed a couple divisions to the Baltics.

However, my overall point was that Washington (bipartisanly) is not asking us to increase our defence spending for domestic defence.

 

[Ostrozac]

Just did some quick figuring based on on-line numbers.

A budget of something between 200 and 500 million CAD would suffice to supply a body of 32,000 with:

Uniforms, PPE, a smart phone, a side arm and a carbine.

A C9 and an M320 GL for each fire team.

A C6, a DMR and a CG84 for every two fire teams

A new Silverado 1500 4x4 Crew Cab every 4 years for every fire team.

....

In a 5% of GDP Universe (100 Billion CAD a year, 400 Billion every 4 years or 1 parliament), those numbers amount to rounding errors.

Ensure the primary reserve has at least those capabilities then you can start building your real army on top.

Don’t forget about the $100 million for the armoury to house less than 100 effectives. Seriously, in some, maybe most, cases the most expensive part of equipping a reservist is not the gear in his hands, it’s the roof over his head. Infrastructure has to be factored in.

 

[Rjgillies]

Don’t forget about the $100 million for the armoury to house less than 100 effectives. Seriously, in some, maybe most, cases the most expensive part of equipping a reservist is not the gear in his hands, it’s the roof over his head. Infrastructure has to be factored in.

Is a dedicated DND armoury required?
On the prairies there are warehouse with office buildings almost everywhere. Oil &Gas love them and leave them. Fenced compounds. External pads, even plug in parking. Lease rather than use capital dollars

 

[GK .Dundas]

Is a dedicated DND armoury required?
On the prairies there are warehouse with office buildings almost everywhere. Oil &Gas love them and leave them. Fenced compounds. External pads, even plug in parking. Lease rather than use capital dollars

I have suggested this before and also note that a lot of them come with either rail sidings going through them or nearby.
As well as easy access to the local highway system.

 

[Ostrozac]

Is a dedicated DND armoury required?
On the prairies there are warehouse with office buildings almost everywhere. Oil &Gas love them and leave them. Fenced compounds. External pads, even plug in parking. Lease rather than use capital dollars

The CAF has been using a wide variety of solutions, including new builds, legacy/heritage buildings, and buildings abandoned by the Reg Force (NDMC is one). All are expensive options. There’s also been an experiment in using modular FOB-style buildings - 30 Fd Regt RCA moved into this when their old legacy building self-divested, can’t speak to the cost but it might be the way forward.

 

[KevinB]

Just did some quick figuring based on on-line numbers.

A budget of something between 200 and 500 million CAD would suffice to supply a body of 32,000 with:

Uniforms, PPE, a smart phone, a side arm and a carbine.

A C9 and an M320 GL for each fire team.

A C6, a DMR and a CG84 for every two fire teams

A new Silverado 1500 4x4 Crew Cab every 4 years for every fire team.

Not in a million years. I don’t think you understand what things actually cost to procure, let alone maintain.
1.5B CDN would be in the low end of the range.

I can make a breakdown if you disagree

....

In a 5% of GDP Universe (100 Billion CAD a year, 400 Billion every 4 years or 1 parliament), those numbers amount to rounding errors.

Ensure the primary reserve has at least those capabilities then you can start building your real army on top.