High Ranking Police Folk Allegedly Behaving Badly

[Booter]

Show me where they get lighter sentences in court being as they are “common place”. I’ll show you people sexually assaulting children and getting probation. So let’s do it. Show me where police officers are getting “lighter sentences”

we ll start there.

Police aren’t generally arrested at the time because there aren’t grounds to arrest them as we know them, they have no criminal history, and if we stop them from driving or take their gun out of their locker they are no longer able to continue the offence. Which is the standard for whether an everyday person is arrested as well.

I have arrested cops. Including those in uniform. You’re just unhappy we don’t parade them in uniform in front of a camera and embarrass them. You don’t want equal treatment you want them treated worse. It would be a more honest conversation if you could just admit that.

The court systems first time sentences for everyone are light. If you’re shocked at their criminal conviction sentences: it is shock with the systems usual punishments. You are just seeing a normal sentence in Canada first hand- little to nothing to do with being a police officer.

The most common assault outcome in Canada is a fine or a conditional sentence. Impaireds- diving prohibs and fines. Same for everyone. Threatening people is a peace bond and a conditional sentence. Like it’s literally the same for everyone. Domestics that are simple assault 266- usually deferred for spousal counselling and programming with a conditional sentence,

These are what every Canadian can expect from their first criminal charges. While there are cops charged multiple times, and charged with more serious offences, anything higher than these on their firsts would be worse than anyone else. If you want to make that argument it can be made- but your “special treatment” argument is make believe.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I'm sure IA folks are recruited internally.

Yeah. I'm just passionate about this stuff.

If the incident is reported, most likely.

What would happen if a CBSA agent got mad at a coworker and pointed a loaded weapon at them?

I have seen - first hand - the exact opposite in my line of work. Professional courtesy only gets you so far.

The case of a off-duty RCMP officer hitting a 14 year old and being told by the first cop on the scene to go home and wait before the scene was properly investigated comes to mind.

The public assumes that LEOs are experts in firearms handling. As a firearms instructor I can tell you this is not the case. Better than average, yes, but by no means "experts".

I agree about LEOs not being experts with firearms, both in the handling sense or laws surrounding them. Pointing a loaded firearm at someone because you're mad is a completely different issue though.

 

[Booter]

The case of an off-duty RCMP officer hitting a 14 year old and being told by the first cop on the scene to go home and wait before the scene was properly investigated comes to mind.

Quick tell me what the “scene being properly investigated” looks like for an assault of a 14 year old?

Simple assault complaints unless there are extenuating circumstances are compelled to court without an arrest. For everyone. I know where Bill lives and I’ve id’d him. I get statements. If a charge is supported we just give them a court date on a document.

In your case Cop Bill faces professional sanctions as well. So he gets to go through two investigations.

 

[Haggis]

Yeah. I'm just passionate about this stuff.

That's admirable. Perhaps a VOT is in order.

What would happen if a CBSA agent got mad at a coworker and pointed a loaded weapon at them?

To my knowledge it hasn't happened yet. But suspensions have been handed out for lesser transgressions. And, for the umpteenth time on these forums, we are Border Services Officers not CBSA agents, despite what the MSM says.

I agree about LEOs not being experts with firearms, both in the handling sense or laws surrounding them.

BSO applicants (see what I did there) are required to successfully complete the CFSC and CRFSC prior to applying to CBSA, so there's that which gives them a bit of an advantage on a lot of other Canadian LEOs as far as understanding our byzantine firearms laws. That being said, we enforce or administer almost 100 federal acts and regulations so we can't be experts in all of them.

Pointing a loaded firearm at someone because you're mad is a completely different issue though.

I don't care who you are, that's just stupid and, if you don't face criminal sanctions, you should lose your privileges to carry a firearm for at least a substantial period of time and be re-trained and re-evaluated, as per agency policy.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Show me where they get lighter sentences in court being as they are “common place”. I’ll show you people sexually assaulting children and getting probation. So let’s do it. Show me where police officers are getting “lighter sentences”

I'm going to assume your response was primarily to me.

Let's start with Constable Roesler. Was her pointing a loaded firearm at a police officer and arguably threatening them, getting what amounts to a $3000 or $4000 fine and moving work locations, a light average or heavy punishment?

Police aren’t generally arrested at the time because there aren’t grounds to arrest them as we know them, they have no criminal history, and if we stop them from driving or take their gun out of their locker they are no longer able to continue the offence. Which is the standard for whether an everyday person is arrested as well.

As Brihard pointed out, we don't know if she had her firearm removed from her possession. She still threatened a police officer with a firearm and a handful of other criminal code offences. I hope they did that much at least.

I have arrested cops. Including those in uniform.

That's great to hear they didn't get special treatment. Are you able to say why?

You’re just unhappy we don’t parade them in uniform in front of a camera and embarrass them.

I don't even think hardcore criminals should be paraded infront of cameras, I think perp walks are disgusting. I don't want to see cops embarassed. I do want to see transparency and citizens to see what cops are disiplined for. The same way the military treats courts marshal. The military should be more transparent with other forms of discipline people get hit with too.

You don’t want equal treatment you want them treated worse. It would be a more honest conversation if you could just admit that.

If by treated worse you mean held to a higher standard for behavior and punishment then yes. Just like people in the military with higher authority or rank. They should be held to a higher standard of behavior and recieve harsher punishment. A police officer shouldn't get a light sentence for pointing a loaded handgun at someone because they're big mad. She should have been charged.

The court systems first time sentences for everyone are light.

You're right, but not just first time offenders.

If you’re shocked at their criminal conviction sentences: it is shock with the systems usual punishments. You are just seeing a normal sentence in Canada first hand- little to nothing to do with being a police officer.

And the big unanswered question comes back to whether criminal charges were even considered in this officers case.

Threatening people is a peace bond and a conditional sentence. Like it’s literally the same for everyone.

If I point a loaded gun at a cop will I get any kind of firearms ban?

If you want to make that argument it can be made- but your “special treatment” argument is make believe.

If I'm wrong I'm wrong.

I don't have a criminal record and I can find a few people to write letters saying I'm a good guy. If you piss me off and I pull a loaded pistol on you, threaten you, then put my pistol away, what happens to me?

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Counseling...

 

[daftandbarmy]

I don't have a criminal record and I can find a few people to write letters saying I'm a good guy. If you piss me off and I pull a loaded pistol on you, threaten you, then put my pistol away, what happens to me?

An Ozzie cop got sentenced to 100 hours community service for pointing his gun at a colleague ..

Top Gun: Maverick spoiler threat prompts officer to pull gun on colleague​

Gaynor's lawyer said his client acknowledged his mistake while denying any malicious intent to scare or intimidate.

He told the court this was a case of "skylarking and tomfoolery" that had "gone awry". He said his client was remorseful, and that the incident would "cost him dearly".

In his sentencing, the judge noted the "power imbalance" between Gaynor and his more junior colleague.

He acknowledged several character references for Gaynor, saying the officer's actions represented "an unfortunate lapse of judgement", which was not representative of his "true character".

Gaynor was today handed a community corrections order for two years, 100 hours of community service, and recorded a conviction, ABC reports.

Top Gun: Maverick spoiler threat prompts officer to pull gun on colleague

An Australian officer is sentenced after threatening to shoot a colleague over a plot spoiler.

www.bbc.com

 

[Jarnhamar]

Quick tell me what the “scene being properly investigated” looks like for an assault of a 14 year old?

Edit- I wasn't clear and you thought I was talking about a simple assault or something along those lines.

Here's what I'm referring to.

Off duty RCMP officer hit a 14 year old kid with their car. The first cop on the scene told the off duty police officer to go home and wait before any investigation took place. They were sent home before providing a statement. They drove the vehicle they struck the kid with home. No pictures of the vehicle taken on scene.

A complaint was made to the Public Safety Canada / Civilian Review and Complaints Commission. The CRCC found there was sufficient concern that this treatment was “special treatment” because the person at fault was a fellow officer. They referred the matter for a disciplinary hearing.

 

[lenaitch]

Domestics that are simple assault 266- usually deferred for spousal counselling and programming with a conditional sentence,

For the longest time in Ontario (don't know if it still the same), domestic assault (or 'domestic anything' - apparently you can commit Mischief by damaging your own property) was a Peace Bond, suspended sentence and conditional discharge - conditional on making a donation to a charity (and there just happens to be reps of one or two sitting in the court room. Donate, give receipt to the court office and condition satisfied). Police and Crown were under instructions to oppose bail so (usually) buddy just wants it to be over so he can go to work on Monday. Most of the time the missus didn't want him charged in the first place and she wants him to go to work Monday as well. Crown gets a docket cleared.

Sorry. Off topic.