High Speed Train Coming?-split from boosting Canada’s military spending"

[Brad Sallows]

not to mention: beer both before and during

Makes sense. Porter is, after all, a beer.

 

[ytz]

not to mention: beer both before and during

Only if flying from Toronto. No pre-boarding beer from Ottawa.

I like Porter. But it does kinda suck when coming back from out west, we always get routed back through Toronto at night.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

How Metrolinx’s plan to deliver European-style train service went off the rails

GO Expansion will still transform Greater Golden Horseshoe transit — but likely won’t be as ambitious as what was planned just three years ago

www.thetrillium.ca

How the plan for a World Class Rail network to bring Toronto in to the 21st century ran in to a wall of good old fashioned Canadian Ineptocracy

Also, we have two World Class railways already, they just transport freight instead of passengers.

 

[QV]

How Metrolinx’s plan to deliver European-style train service went off the rails

GO Expansion will still transform Greater Golden Horseshoe transit — but likely won’t be as ambitious as what was planned just three years ago

www.thetrillium.ca

How the plan for a World Class Rail network to bring Toronto in to the 21st century ran in to a wall of good old fashioned Canadian Ineptocracy

Also, we have two World Class railways already, they just transport freight instead of passengers.

I suggest the reason they are world class is because it makes much more economic sense to move freight than people.

 

[mariomike]

Good news for HSR and UPX enthusiasts.

Nov 21, 2025

National Post

Liberals propose bill to streamline, pre-approve Toronto-Quebec City high-speed rail line

Liberals propose bill to streamline, pre-approve Toronto-Quebec City high-speed rail line

Carney government is proposing to grant the Crown corporation behind high-speed railway between Toronto and Quebec City sweeping new powers.

nationalpost.com

And, good news for UP Express passengers.

Veterans do not tap PRESTO on GO Transit.

As of, 1 Jan., 2026 Veterans no longer tap on UP Express either. Just show your NDI 75 upon request. Or, CAF ID.

Veterans and Canadian Armed Forces Fare Type

Find out how to access the Veterans and Canadian Armed Forces fare type.

www.upexpress.com

25 minutes Union < > Pearson.

Union Pearson Express - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[PrairieFella]

Excellent news. HSR is a no-brainer in the Golden Horsehoe. For these intermediate distances HSR is vastly superior to flying.

 

[FSTO]

Excellent news. HSR is a no-brainer in the Golden Horsehoe. For these intermediate distances HSR is vastly superior to flying.

Because I couldn’t make up my mind, I waited until the last week before buying tickets to the Grey cup. By that time, tickets to fly from Ottawa to Winnipeg were crazy expensive and rare. So we decided to train to Toronto and fly from there. The experience was actually pretty good because we took the train from Fallowfield to Union Station Toronto, and then the up train to Pearson if we get the high-speed train between Quebec city and Toronto trips to Toronto will be Uber simple. Next, I hope that Alberta asked for federal funding for a high-speed train from Calgary to Edmonton, eventually a high-speed loop that goes from Winnipeg Regina, Calgary, Edmonton, Saskatoon, and back to Winnipeg would be amazing and then a high-speed train from Calgary to Vancouver and from Edmonton to Vancouver would make the whole thing complete.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Because I couldn’t make up my mind, I waited until the last week before buying tickets to the Grey cup. By that time, tickets to fly from Ottawa to Winnipeg were crazy expensive and rare. So we decided to train to Toronto and fly from there. The experience was actually pretty good because we took the train from Fallowfield to Union Station Toronto, and then the up train to Pearson if we get the high-speed train between Quebec city and Toronto trips to Toronto will be Uber simple. Next, I hope that Alberta asked for federal funding for a high-speed train from Calgary to Edmonton, eventually a high-speed loop that goes from Winnipeg Regina, Calgary, Edmonton, Saskatoon, and back to Winnipeg would be amazing and then a high-speed train from Calgary to Vancouver and from Edmonton to Vancouver would make the whole thing complete.

There's a $200B+ plan, right there...

'Alto' means 'Stop'. Unlike the the bottom line on the budget estimate:

Federal government to expedite Alto, Canada's first high-speed rail project​

At this preliminary stage of planning, there is no estimated construction cost, but it will certainly be in the tens of billions of dollars. It will likely be exponentially higher than the previous preliminary estimate of $6 billion to $12 billion for the original HFR concept.

For the extensive technical design, engineering, and planning work alone required for high-speed rail, the federal government has already set aside $3.9 billion — before shovels can hit the ground.

Federal government to expedite Alto, Canada's first high-speed rail project | Urbanized

The Government of Canada will expedite the planning of Alto high-speed rail to enable construction to begin in four years from now.

dailyhive.com

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

There's a $200B+ plan, right there...

'Alto' means 'Stop'. Unlike the the bottom line on the budget estimate:

Federal government to expedite Alto, Canada's first high-speed rail project​

At this preliminary stage of planning, there is no estimated construction cost, but it will certainly be in the tens of billions of dollars. It will likely be exponentially higher than the previous preliminary estimate of $6 billion to $12 billion for the original HFR concept.

For the extensive technical design, engineering, and planning work alone required for high-speed rail, the federal government has already set aside $3.9 billion — before shovels can hit the ground.

Federal government to expedite Alto, Canada's first high-speed rail project | Urbanized

The Government of Canada will expedite the planning of Alto high-speed rail to enable construction to begin in four years from now.

dailyhive.com

We could have provided them with a simpler solution:

High-Frequency Rail aka fix VIA Rail. Which like Canada Post et al... is a failing crown corporation.

 

[dapaterson]

We could have provided them with a simpler solution:

High-Frequency Rail aka fix VIA Rail. Which like Canada Post et al... is a failing crown corporation.

High frequency would still require new tracks, new rights of way, as sharing with freight is one of the issues VIA faces.

If you're laying new track, might as well also make it faster.

 

[Brad Sallows]

What will be the cost per mile?

What will be the operating subsidy per mile?

What else could we build using the first and operate using the second that would move more people more often more usefully, anywhere in the country?

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

High frequency would still require new tracks, new rights of way, as sharing with freight is one of the issues VIA faces.

If you're laying new track, might as well also make it faster.

Disagree, the cost $$$ of HSR vs HFR track is astronomically more.

There are lots of things that could be done with existing trackage to greatly increase train speed/velocity....which is our primary concern when speaking about the current problems plaguing VIA.

Things that would be a heck of a lot cheaper than +$200 billion... which is a lowball estimate for this project.

 

[FSTO]

Dedicated tracks for VIA is an imperative for HFR.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Disagree, the cost $$$ of HSR vs HFR track is astronomically more.

There are lots of things that could be done with existing trackage to greatly increase train speed/velocity....which is our primary concern when speaking about the current problems plaguing VIA.

Things that would be a heck of a lot cheaper than +$200 billion... which is a lowball estimate for this project.

An old, sad story, involving more than railways, filled with hope and band aids....

Why Isn’t Canada a Shipping Superpower?​

This country is terrible at transporting goods. The solution: more ports, more highways, more railroads.
By Kent Fellows

For a country defined by its vast geography, Canada is startlingly bad at transporting goods. We haven’t been serious about building transportation networks since the 1970s, and now our lack of infrastructure is hampering our ability to trade with other countries and even between provinces. For Canada to be resilient in a changing global economy, that must change now.

Some of our greatest building projects were born out of moments of national urgency. We constructed the TransCanada Pipeline in the years after the Second World War on the back of a post-war economic boom, and then the Trans-Canada Highway a decade later with leftover wartime stimulus. Letting our infrastructure languish in a global time of reform and innovation would have left us behind. Now we face a new crisis. A trade war with the United States is laying bare our outsized dependence on a single trading partner. We spent much of the last century strengthening our trade ties with the U.S. because it’s easy: we share a border, a language and a regulatory approach.

But try moving goods from Alberta to Ontario, or Saskatchewan to Nova Scotia. You’ll quickly find bottlenecks, missing links and backlogs at our overstretched ports. Our three cancelled pipeline projects—the Keystone, the Northern Gateway, and Energy East—are not the only blemishes on our record. Montreal and the St. Lawrence River are inaccessible to many modern container ships, which blocks them from entering Eastern Canada. The Port of Churchill faces limited commercial potential due to seasonal ice conditions and poor inland connectivity. And while jets can carry cargo to our territories, suitable runways remain limited.

For generations now, we’ve lost our nerve to build our own transportation networks. And that’s a problem: to leverage our vast natural resources and bulletproof our economy, we must become better at transporting goods: into the country, outside of it and within it.

We are certainly not short on ideas of how to do that. At the University of Calgary School of Public Policy, we’ve long been advocating for a northern corridor across Canada— an integrated transport, energy and digital network across the North. The concept dates back to the 1960s, but it never gained serious momentum. It’s a shame. We estimated in a 2018 paper that improved infrastructure in the north would increase the overall GDP of the territories to $6 billion—or $40,000 per resident. The impact on cost of living would also be huge. Meanwhile, twinning Route 185 from Quebec to New Brunswick would lower the delivered cost of traded goods and add up to $1.78 billion to Canada’s annual GDP. We could add another $9 billion to that by improving infrastructure—particularly rail—in Alberta.

Our ports also need updating: international shipping vessels and tankers are becoming larger than ever, but we’re not set up to accommodate a larger influx of containers. The Port of Vancouver, Canada’s largest, is out of space. Land costs are soaring, and physical expansion is nearly impossible. But there are other solutions. For example, Vancouver relies on Winnipeg to marshal containers for rail—why not invest in that co-ordination instead of dreaming up expensive land acquisitions? We could also reroute some shipments to Prince Rupert, a second, well-positioned port that’s still underutilized. Using it to its full potential would limit clogging the Vancouver port. Our ports also lack the technological capabilities of their European counterparts. Something as basic as digitally tracking containers would save us from leaving economic value on the table.

But we can’t stop at the water’s edge. We have to improve the rail and road links from our ports to our economic heartlands. Intermodal terminals, such as the Moorebank project connecting Sydney, Australia, to Port Botany, facilitate container transfers between rail and sea. They reduce reliance on road freight, alleviate congestion and lower transportation costs. Not to mention that this port will create approximately 6,800 jobs.

It’s not just about global exports either—Canada doesn’t trade well within itself. One flood in British Columbia in 2021 cut off major rail lines like the Trans Mountain pipeline and the Trans-Canada Highway and crippled our national supply chain because we had no alternate routes to transport the goods. That should have been a wake-up call to create more robust infrastructure, as climate change guarantees more of these disruptions.

https://macleans.ca/society/why-isnt-canada-a-shipping-superpower/

 

[FSTO]

I think the current federal government knows this and wants to invest. I don’t know if the special interest groups are willing to help out.

 

[lenaitch]

VIA has a couple of fundamental problems. First, it is a Crown Corporation but has no enabling legislation; there is no 'VIA Rail Act', so it can't do a lot of things other Crown Corps can, including seeking funding on the open market. Its existence and sole source of income, other than the fare box, is at the mercy of the government of the day. The other main problem is about 97% of its operations are on somebody else's property; CN or CPKC but mostly CN. To add track on CN ROW, it becomes CN property. I suppose the government could try to go toe-to-toe with the Class 1 companies and try to force a better arrangement with VIA but they successively show no desire to do that and no doubt there would be unintended consequences.

High frequency rail require dedicated trackage, but high speed rail require conditions like curves, grades, bedding, separation, etc. that are exponentially more costly than traditional rail rights-of-way.

A point of clarification in that the proposed ALTO HSR is not a VIA project. It is set up as a distinct 'public-private partnership'; although, confusingly, it is apparently officially known as 'VIA HSR-VIA TGF Inc.'. The 'private' part is a consortium called Cadence which includes a number of Canadian and international companies including Air Canada.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Dedicated tracks for VIA is an imperative for HFR.

There is a tonne of abandoned rail-line in Eastern Canada, like a metric tonne. Moreover, the dedicated trackage VIA uses is all mostly double track in the Corridor. The issue isn't the track itself or really even the freight trains. There is more than enough room to facilitate meets and additional crossovers and/or sidings could be installed to facilitate additional passenger rail service, a cost to the Govt of course.

It's the 1000s of unprotected at grade crossings that exist on the corridor and really, what amounts to poor municipal/urban planning, that gets in the way. It gets worse the closer you get to major urban centres. All those folks that wanted waterfront property which just happened to be next to former industrial sites and rail operations.

VIA has a couple of fundamental problems. First, it is a Crown Corporation but has no enabling legislation; there is no 'VIA Rail Act', so it can't do a lot of things other Crown Corps can, including seeking funding on the open market. Its existence and sole source of income, other than the fare box, is at the mercy of the government of the day. The other main problem is about 97% of its operations are on somebody else's property; CN or CPKC but mostly CN. To add track on CN ROW, it becomes CN property. I suppose the government could try to go toe-to-toe with the Class 1 companies and try to force a better arrangement with VIA but they successively show no desire to do that and no doubt there would be unintended consequences.

High frequency rail require dedicated trackage, but high speed rail require conditions like curves, grades, bedding, separation, etc. that are exponentially more costly than traditional rail rights-of-way.

A point of clarification in that the proposed ALTO HSR is not a VIA project. It is set up as a distinct 'public-private partnership'; although, confusingly, it is apparently officially known as 'VIA HSR-VIA TGF Inc.'. The 'private' part is a consortium called Cadence which includes a number of Canadian and international companies including Air Canada.

Good analysis. I was in Montreal not that long ago and I am a big believer in their EXO Network they are building. I have some other ideas as it relates to the challenge of first mile/last mile...

 

[foresterab]

There is a tonne of abandoned rail-line in Eastern Canada, like a metric tonne. Moreover, the dedicated trackage VIA uses is all mostly double track in the Corridor. The issue isn't the track itself or really even the freight trains. There is more than enough room to facilitate meets and additional crossovers and/or sidings could be installed to facilitate these freight & passenger rail trains, at a cost to the Govt of course.

It's the 1000s of unprotected at grade crossings that exist on the corridor and really, what amounts to poor municipal/urban planning, that gets in the way. It gets worse the closer you get to major urban centres. All those folks that wanted waterfront property which just happened to be next to former industrial sites and rail operations.



Good analysis. I was in Montreal not that long ago and I am a big believer in their EXO Network they are building. I have some other ideas as it relates to the challenge of first mile/last mile...

Unfortunately as I look out west there are limited passes...many of which are sole controlled corridors. CP via the bow and CN via the Yellowhead pass. CN also owns the route via Mackenzie in NE BC.

So unless we start doing really stupid things I don't see much passenger track being laid west of Edmonton/Calgary. A route from Calgary via the Crowsnest seems to be the best option to me but it's going to be very pricy.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Unfortunately as I look out west there are limited passes...many of which are sole controlled corridors. CP via the bow and CN via the Yellowhead pass. CN also owns the route via Mackenzie in NE BC.

So unless we start doing really stupid things I don't see much passenger track being laid west of Edmonton/Calgary. A route from Calgary via the Crowsnest seems to be the best option to me but it's going to be very pricy.

Yah I don't think anyone would seriously consider a passenger train other than the existing tourist trains (Canadian/Rocky Mountaineer) as being at viable enterprises.

I used to live in BC, there is no need for any passenger rail outside the lower Mainland.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Yah I don't think anyone would seriously consider a passenger train other than the existing tourist trains (Canadian/Rocky Mountaineer) as being at viable enterprises.

I used to live in BC, there is no need for any passenger rail outside the lower Mainland.

Which reflects the prevailing, self-defeating, opinion of most people in the Lower Mainland who have no real interest in building the economy of the Interior of BC where all the Conservatives (and natural resources) live