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is there a schematic of what it will look like and the flow through?
The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
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Rainbow1910
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Nothing public.
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Will any of this lead to a measurable increase in throughput?
EDIT:
And will they actually fund it themselves or do they have their hand out already?
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I think this a result of some money the Feds gave them to improve the yard. Not sure if it was a straight up grant or a loan.
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What's the expected, measurable increase in throughput as a result of this? Is there any or is this just empire building on Irving's part?
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You are joking, right?
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Or a loan that will inevitably be forgiven and become a de facto grant.
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Sadly I wasn't but then you just woke me up from expecting anything in terms of increased efficiency or accountability from giving untold millions to a private company (family) that owns/controls virtually all of the Maritimes.
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The previous Government was not super big on insisting on performance standards for money granted…
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Has any government?
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2023 year in review: National Shipbuilding Strategy - Canada.ca
Updates on National Shipbuilding Strategy (NSS) activities from January 1 to December 31, 2023
www.canada.ca
2023 year in review: National Shipbuilding Strategy - Canada.ca
Updates on National Shipbuilding Strategy (NSS) activities from January 1 to December 31, 2023
Infrastructure investment
On August 8, 2023, Canada announced an investment of $463 million (including taxes) in the CSC project’s infrastructure enhancements at Irving Shipbuilding to improve schedule certainty and project costs. Furthermore, this investment will accelerate delivery of CSC vessels in time to meet the needs of the RCN. It will also create or maintain over 800 jobs annually across various industries in Canada while delivering the best value for Canadians.The infrastructure enhancements will expand and modify the site and facilities at the Halifax Shipyard and supporting facilities in Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, including at Woodside Industries and Marine Fabricators, to enhance capacity and accommodate the requirements of the CSC’s complex ship design.
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Not certain, but the previous Liberals were really bad.
OldSolduer
Army.ca Relic
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Most likely this option is the way it will fall out.
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The UKs Janet Harvey Hall measures 170m (558ft) long and 80m (262ft) wide, and 33m high at its door with two 100-tonne cranes and two more 20-tonne cranes inside
Irvings existing assembly hall which is 408m in length and 60m wide by 49m high (?)
What the $463M Is Actually Doing
Creating 13 acres of new usable yard space through infill for staging and parallel integration.
Expanding the Dartmouth fabrication facility to increase steel throughput and block production.
Upgrading the graving dock to accommodate larger, heavier hulls.
Installing a new floating drydock for more efficient launching.
Acquiring new cranes and megablock handling systems to handle larger and heavier modules.
Modifying the existing assembly hall (408m long, 60m wide) to squeeze more productivity from a structure that’s long enough but lacks ideal width for dual-lane assembly.
Google AI tells me
Key site improvements and projects include:
Curious if the $871.7 million includes the original $360 million at the start of the NSS or not. Either way shipbuilding is not for the faint of heart.
Davie’s final assembly hall will be(is?) 180m L by 80m W and 30m high under the crane, with two 500 tonne cranes.
Irvings existing assembly hall which is 408m in length and 60m wide by 49m high (?)
What the $463M Is Actually Doing
Creating 13 acres of new usable yard space through infill for staging and parallel integration.
Expanding the Dartmouth fabrication facility to increase steel throughput and block production.
Upgrading the graving dock to accommodate larger, heavier hulls.
Installing a new floating drydock for more efficient launching.
Acquiring new cranes and megablock handling systems to handle larger and heavier modules.
Modifying the existing assembly hall (408m long, 60m wide) to squeeze more productivity from a structure that’s long enough but lacks ideal width for dual-lane assembly.
Google AI tells me
Key site improvements and projects include:
- Land Level Expansion: A major expansion project is underway at the
Halifax Shipyard
, which involves dredging and rock infill to create approximately 13 acres (5.26 hectares) of additional yard space. This expanded area will support the fabrication, launching, and maintenance of the new vessels. - New Paint Hall Facility: A cutting-edge, three-bay paint and blast facility is being constructed by BlastOne International, with an expected handover in March 2026. This facility is essential for the production of the River-class destroyers (RCD).
- Shiplift Installation: A new 165-meter shiplift with a capacity of over 27,000 metric tons is being installed to support the destroyer program and future maintenance work.
- Facility Upgrades: Enhancements have been made to the supporting facilities
- Infrastructure Funding: In August 2023, the Canadian government announced an additional investment of $463 million for infrastructure enhancements, with further funding in May 2024 bringing the revised total investment to an estimated $871.7 million to accelerate vessel delivery.
Curious if the $871.7 million includes the original $360 million at the start of the NSS or not. Either way shipbuilding is not for the faint of heart.
Davie’s final assembly hall will be(is?) 180m L by 80m W and 30m high under the crane, with two 500 tonne cranes.
Rainbow1910
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Currently Irving does not have adequate space to take on efficient River class construction given that the yard was initially expanded to build smaller vessels, before the NSS mandated larger warship designs as part of the CSC program.
The new construction will give them enough room to manufacture multiple vessels at once throughout the process, they currently don’t have this ability with the size of the river class and its modules.
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at least we have an assembly hall to begin with. Will they be widening it so like BAE's they can work on 2 side by side?
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Word salad from the GoC on the timelines. I've not seen anything from Irving talking about timelines being shorten/truncated as a result of us giving the Irving family company 1/2 billion CAD. Has Irving posted anything saying that this 1/2 billion will allow us to shorten by 1yr the timeline to deliver ships 2 through 5 and an additional shorting of 6 months for the remaining ships 6-15 or anything similar?
2023 year in review: National Shipbuilding Strategy - Canada.ca
Updates on National Shipbuilding Strategy (NSS) activities from January 1 to December 31, 2023
Infrastructure investment
On August 8, 2023, Canada announced an investment of $463 million (including taxes) in the CSC project’s infrastructure enhancements at Irving Shipbuilding to improve schedule certainty and project costs. Furthermore, this investment will accelerate delivery of CSC vessels in time to meet the needs of the RCN. It will also create or maintain over 800 jobs annually across various industries in Canada while delivering the best value for Canadians.
The infrastructure enhancements will expand and modify the site and facilities at the Halifax Shipyard and supporting facilities in Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, including at Woodside Industries and Marine Fabricators, to enhance capacity and accommodate the requirements of the CSC’s complex ship design.
I don't see this being any different than the money given to Stellantis or GM - except there was a written agreement/contract that may have some strings that the GoC can pull (case in point GM currently having its feet held to the fire currently over the Ingersoll closing),
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Would like to see something from them saying 'this extra 1/2 billion CAD will allow us to shorten our delivery timelines by X.' Otherwise we just gave them a 1/2 billion with nothing to show for.
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I feel like it has to be shorter just because tasks are easier and more efficient. BAE started their builds outside, we at least have an assembly hall to start. An assembly hall that is getting improvements. I believe BAE has stated the goal is to get production down to 66 months. Hopefully we are not far behind them based on the build experience from the AOPS and learning from the UK and AUS starts.
Are there incentives for Irving to be quicker, better?
I dont think they need to worry about working so fast they run out of work
Rainbow1910
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As far as I know there isn't plans to widen the hall to such a degree as there simply isn't room to do pure side by side construction, they are still enlarging the hall so it is far easier to maneuver the larger and more complex megablocks of the River class around. Irving's Hall is also an all in one sort of place, where they have a paint shop and a lot of things internally where I am unsure the British equivalent has those. A lot of the expansion is ongoing outside because currently as far as I know, they are heavily bottlenecked by the existing yard space to actually move the hull and its pieces around.
Irving doesn't say basically anything about timelines and part of it is due to the fact first in class ships are kind of up in the air, we don't know exactly how long it will take and the potential for delays due to issues is high. This isn't unique to Irving, but Irving especially doesn't care about PR spin or anything else.
Out of respect for this thread, we should take this to the Canadian Shipbuilding or River class threads instead of clogging up the CF-18 replacement thread for further discussion.
