Continental Defence Corvette

[SeaKingTacco]

I guess where I was attempting to go with this is:

When Obama was dropping Hellfire's all over Afghanistan/Pakistan, were the operators of those unmanned assets based in Afghanistan or back in the US?

If they were based in the US and the unmanned assets were based in Afghanistan, then why can't something similar occur on a ship? We are talking about 7-10yrs out from here at a min.

That is a strategic level asset. And they weren't trying to launch and recover them from a moving deck.

And the US possesses a satellite communication suite the rest of the world can only dream about.

So- no.

 

[RangerRay]

I thought I saw a story years ago about Canadian Predator pilots operating out of a seacan in Kandahar…suggested to me that UAV pilots had to be relatively nearby.

 

[Halifax Tar]

That is a strategic level asset. And they weren't trying to launch and recover them from a moving deck.

And the US possesses a satellite communication suite the rest of the world can only dream about.

So- no.

I could see issues getting a ship closed up; and bird launched for ASW threat based action stations as well, with the pilot XXXXkms away.

 

[dapaterson]

I thought I saw a story years ago about Canadian Predator pilots operating out of a seacan in Kandahar…suggested to me that UAV pilots had to be relatively nearby.

Depends on the aircraft, among a plethora of other issues.

 

[Cloud Cover]

Should we have Attack Helicopters... probably.

Does it have anything to do with embarked aviation... nope. AH is the wrong tool for the job, even armed recce. The days of flying around the ocean looking for ships visually are long gone. Maritime armed recce should be done with a light MH, such as a Lynx, or perferably a Wildcat.

I couldn't find a picture, but VU-32 used to operate CH-135 Twin Hueys from ashore for fleet general support. If we could afford a split fleet (and granted, we may have to if DND wants to embark on the AOPS) then maybe bring that back with a Canadian built UH-1Y. Although I'd perfer a Wildcat, it's a pretty big ask.

If we were to switch to the SH-60, I think a split fleet of Romeos and Sierras with increased numbers makes a lot of sense.

Getting back to the topic at hand, I think the CDC without manned embarked aviation is short sighted. This alone, in my mind, should be enough to split fleet and have a smaller helicopter.

I will admit my bias, as I spend my time researching how and why the decisions that led to the Sea King on the St Laurants were made.However, we did operate a 10 ton Sea King from a 2,250 ton DDH for a long time, quite effectively it turns out.

Certainly one fear that cannot be overstated is that some dimwit in Ottawa is certain to try and push the NH90 onto the RCAF/ RCN to fill any medium helicopter gap created by CDC and AOPS.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Yes I hear they are going cheap...

 

[Maxman1]

Yes I hear they are going cheap...

 

[RangerRay]

Depends on the aircraft, among a plethora of other issues.

I thought they were Predators or similar, but I could be wrong

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I thought I saw a story years ago about Canadian Predator pilots operating out of a seacan in Kandahar…suggested to me that UAV pilots had to be relatively nearby.

We have never owned Predators.

 

[dapaterson]

We have never owned Predators.

Predator, kamikaze lawnmower, pretty much the same.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Predator, kamikaze lawnmower, pretty much the same.

Ahem…kamikaze ATM…thank-you very much!

 

[Prairie canuck]

I think including a helicopter on the CDC is something that needs to be carefully considered, as the current state of RCAF naval aviation is very lacking. I don't think it makes sense at all to build CDC out to fit a Cyclone sized helicopter, given how much space and weight would be taken up by the required flight deck and hanger footprint on such a small vessel design. I also question including a hanger to fit a "smaller helicopter" without a proper plan going forward to procure said aircraft, as aviation facilities to fit them aboard come with a non-insignificant cost for such a vessel.

Only repeat this in a whisper and only outside of Ottawa, there is a basic ASW version of the 412, Bell 412EPI ASW. 412 ASW

 

[Underway]

So I was thinking about the CDC and whether or not it needs a helicopter option. A good ASW ship needs a helo to find a prosecute a target. And then I'm realizing that the RCN isn't looking at the problem like this anymore.

The RCN is going what do we need. We need a ship that go to the ice edge and fight within friendly airspace. Collect data on what is going on underwater, surface and air, defend itself from threats equivalent to another ship of the same class and some submarines.

The RCN isn't interested in all singing and dancing anymore outside of the RCD, we want a system that does a thing and then another system that does another thing, and we're willing to build that stuff, see where it overlaps and where it had gaps and fill those gaps with something else.

So thinking this way... a helicopter is really for self defence from submarines. Helo's are for defence of a Task Group from submarines, in conjunction with other helicopters and multiple other assets. The full ASW team. CDC doesn't need to carry a helo because it will always be operating where an MPA can reach it, in conjunction with UUV's and maybe an RCD with a helo itself.

Of course maybe its just to save cost and the recognition that we won't have enough aircraft to even equip the CDC with a helo.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I think the CDC needs some form of air asset. I just happen to think that asset will be uninhabited.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

I think the CDC needs some form of air asset. I just happen to think that asset will be uninhabited.

That seems to line up with the admiral's view of those vessels. Also, as per Underway's view above, the single most likely employment of CDC air asset will be ISR, not ASW. There are good "non-american" candidates for that out there, such as the Airbus Flexrotor, or even bigger, the VSR700.