Continental Defence Corvette

[Oldgateboatdriver]

The primary driver here is that the AOPS are simply not set up to carry ASW torpedoes. So, regardless of whether they embark a Cyclone or not, they can't do ASW prosecution at this point in time.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Yes because as envisioned the cyclone would be used to do other tasks not including ASW. In fact in the early days a MOU was signed with the CCG to have their helos switch with the Cyclone in the Arctic with the CCG helo operating on AOPS and the Cyclone helping the CG ferry supplies as the carrying capacity was larger.

I know now its in discussion of what it would look like with CCG onboard AOPS with their helos and people are having those discussions.

Yes, but also no.

The hangar and flight deck are generically big enough for a Cyclone, but in a bid to save money on the AOPS project, there was a deliberate effort not to spend the money required to integrate Cyclone (remember the time period when this project commenced).

Now, there is no real way to maintain a Cyclone onboard; no way to store or load torpedos; and certainly none of the esoteric computer networks that the Cyclone require to operate daily. Oh, and not enough JP5 storage to be useful.

All of that can be fixed. Bring money.

 

[Lumber]

Well yeah, obviously. But I mean is this something Canada would be considering employing in contexts where their may be a submarine threat where AOPS is working?

Obviously that’s super not ideal… But if a containerized capability is in service for use, I’m curious how that would integrate with the rest in the event that things go beyond simply collecting intelligence.

The thing is, with passive sensors, the subs don't know they've been detected. And if they decide to put a torpedo into the AOPS just in case it's tracking it, then they are guaranteeing that NATO knows there's a sub there (and that it's hostile).

 

[Stoker]

Yes, but also no.

The hangar and flight deck are generically big enough for a Cyclone, but in a bid to save money on the AOPS project, there was a deliberate effort not to spend the money required to integrate Cyclone (remember the time period when this project commenced).

Now, there is no real way to maintain a Cyclone onboard; no way to store or load torpedos; and certainly none of the esoteric computer networks that the Cyclone require to operate daily. Oh, and not enough JP5 storage to be useful.

All of that can be fixed. Bring money.

I keep telling people that. It could operate a Cyclone for a fairly short period of time. Because no overhead crane you sustain operations like a Halifax Class and it was never meant to. I don't believe it was meant to have a helo all the time regardless of what it has in the hanger.

 

[Stoker]

We should buy some smaller helos, and call it a day. Sea Cobra anyone?

 

[brihard]

I keep telling people that. It could operate a Cyclone for a fairly short period of time. Because no overhead crane you sustain operations like a Halifax Class and it was never meant to. I don't believe it was meant to have a helo all the time regardless of what it has in the hanger.

Dumb question, what’s the significance of the overhead crane?

Please don’t say “lifting stuff”.

 

[DBNSG]

We should buy some smaller helos, and call it a day. Sea Cobra anyone?

The Yankee Version please. I will take 14 or so. Marinized, looks Quebec built, but more capable than the Griffin and deck and Hanger compatible with folding rotors. The Zulu would add some bite to the Wolfe though.

 

[Baz]

We should buy some smaller helos, and call it a day. Sea Cobra anyone?

A Cobra (actually a Viper, as only the AH-1Z is still in production) has no ability to operate off a small deck; its purpose is to support Marines from amphib decks. I’m not sure how that meets any of Canada’s needs.

A Lynx or UH-1Y Venom would make a lot more sense then that.

 

[dapaterson]

Dumb question, what’s the significance of the overhead crane?

Please don’t say “lifting stuff”.

Lifting helicopter stuff.

 

[Baz]

The Yankee Version please. I will take 14 or so. Marinized, looks Quebec built, but more capable than the Griffin and deck and Hanger compatible with folding rotors. The Zulu would add some bite to the Wolfe though.

The UH-1Y (Venom) is not a Cobra or derived from a Cobra, it is the latest Twin Huey.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Dumb question, what’s the significance of the overhead crane?

Please don’t say “lifting stuff”.

Engine maintenance, plus a few other things that get challenging without one.

 

[Baz]

Dumb question, what’s the significance of the overhead crane?

Please don’t say “lifting stuff”.

It’s not as big a deal for support as some make lead you to believe, but it’s because:

• to change an engine you need more specific ground support equipment, that doesn’t necessarily fit in the hangar. The easiest way to deal with it was to fit a crane.
• there is a very heavy, and expensive, avionics box up high (ESM / RWR), and again the crane makes it easier
• since the crane was decided on anyway, it makes certain other maintenance easier

Sorry, SKT and I got there at the same time…

 

[suffolkowner]

when we swap out the Cyclones for Seahawks get a few more for the AOPS/Polar Icebreakers

 

[SeaKingTacco]

when we swap out the Cyclones for Seahawks get a few more for the AOPS/Polar Icebreakers

That really doesn't solve any of the basic problems.

 

[Baz]

That really doesn't solve any of the basic problems.

I was going to say that but didn’t want to make anybody angry.

The institutional problems will not be fixed by swapping the airframe. I’m not convinced the institution even has the capacity to swap the airframe.

But, we’ve been around and around this buoy on this forum, so carry on…

Edited to add: actually, I think SKT was referring to the AOPS problems, whereas I’m referring to the Cyclone ones… carry in nonetheless…

 

[DBNSG]

The UH-1Y (Venom) is not a Cobra or derived from a Cobra, it is the latest Twin Huey.

That's why I said it looked Quebec built. Politics are still politics

 

[suffolkowner]

That really doesn't solve any of the basic problems.

is it that hard to add a crane or lifting apparatus to the hangar?
How much does it need to move?

 

[Baz]

That's why I said it looked Quebec built. Politics are still politics

Ok, I’m confused. It’s got nothing to do with Quebec. The Cobra refers only to the AH-1 derivatives, now named Viper. Given we have no “Marines” to support, we would want the UH-1 derogates, ie the Twin Huey now names Venom.

 

[Baz]

is it that hard to add a crane or lifting apparatus to the hangar?
How much does it need to move?

Like I, and SKT, said, the issue isn’t just the crane, it’s a symptom. None of the work to make the Cyclone supportable on the Halifax class was done for AOPS.

 

[suffolkowner]

Like I, and SKT, said, the issue isn’t just the crane, it’s a symptom. None of the work to make the Cyclone supportable on the Halifax class was done for AOPS.

i more thinking any helicopter not necessarily needing it to be armed with torpedoes