All Things AB Separatism (split fm Liberal Minority Government 2025 - ???)

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Well. First thing is, I personally think Scott Bessent is the only Trump government official who is actually and demonstrably stupider than Trump himself. second thing is, I don't think Smith herself is stupid enough to put her party at risk of splitting over a question she knows will lose any referendum in Alberta.

To me this is politicking at its best, but not serious.

 

[MrWhyt]

Well. First thing is, I personally think Scott Bessent is the only Trump government official who is actually and demonstrably stupider than Trump himself.

he's just a good old soybean farmer /s

 

[lenaitch]

Well. First thing is, I personally think Scott Bessent is the only Trump government official who is actually and demonstrably stupider than Trump himself.

A bold claim given the line-up.

 

[RangerRay]

Well. First thing is, I personally think Scott Bessent is the only Trump government official who is actually and demonstrably stupider than Trump himself. second thing is, I don't think Smith herself is stupid enough to put her party at risk of splitting over a question she knows will lose any referendum in Alberta.

To me this is politicking at its best, but not serious.

From what I’ve heard, Bessent is supposed to one of the smarter ones…

 

[Remius]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/analysis-alberta-separatism-scott-bessent-9.7059168

Seems like the stuff Bessent says won’t be of much help to the separatists.

 

[MilEME09]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/analysis-alberta-separatism-scott-bessent-9.7059168

Seems like the stuff Bessent says won’t be of much help to the separatists.

It shows how much separatists dont even have a united voice with a good amount of them wanting to join the US. Really if you look online, none of them can agree on messaging. Its a very uncoordinated group, and their main lawyer cpuld be disbarred depending on how his hearing goes

 

[brihard]

It shows how much separatists dont even have a united voice with a good amount of them wanting to join the US. Really if you look online, none of them can agree on messaging. Its a very uncoordinated group, and their main lawyer cpuld be disbarred depending on how his hearing goes

Not to mention the real mouth breathers like Rath et al think that if this happens, they'll be the ones running the show... Like no buds, you have no democratic mandate, unquestionably some more polished and experienced politicians would pat you on the head, say 'good boy', and get elected because they'll walk into it with an established political party and associated apparatus. The hardcore separatists will be out in the cold not getting most of what they want. Not to mention the years and years of discussions and negotiations that would have to happen to make it even occur. It's not like they would hold a referendum Monday, announce results Tuesday, and be sovereign by Friday. None of these people truly seem to understand just what this would all entail.

 

[MilEME09]

Not to mention the real mouth breathers like Rath et al think that if this happens, they'll be the ones running the show... Like no buds, you have no democratic mandate, unquestionably some more polished and experienced politicians would pat you on the head, say 'good boy', and get elected because they'll walk into it with an established political party and associated apparatus. The hardcore separatists will be out in the cold not getting most of what they want. Not to mention the years and years of discussions and negotiations that would have to happen to make it even occur. It's not like they would hold a referendum Monday, announce results Tuesday, and be sovereign by Friday. None of these people truly seem to understand just what this would all entail.

The misinformation doesnt help either when they tell people they will keep their CPP, etc like no thats all negotiated and Canada would have the right to tell you to piss off if it wanted.

 

[brihard]

The misinformation doesnt help either when they tell people they will keep their CPP, etc like no thats all negotiated and Canada would have the right to tell you to piss off if it wanted.

No reason they wouldn’t keep CPP earned to date unless Alberta basically bought the whole thing out. A Canadian who pays into CPP and later moves overseas is still entitled to and receives their benefits. Unless Parliament unilaterally legislated to retroactively revoke the accrued benefits of Canadians earned while working in Canada, there would be no reason to expect any such a thing. Not to say their could not subsequently be a state to state negotiation of a tax treaty like we have with some countries (eg my dad has a sweet deal drawing his CAF pension while living in Australia), but the benefits themselves were already earned and should be honoured.

 

[Brad Sallows]

The misinformation doesnt help either when they tell people they will keep their CPP, etc like no thats all negotiated and Canada would have the right to tell you to piss off if it wanted.

If a province separates, some of the people would be "separating" against their will - Canadians living in Alberta, for example, just as some Canadians choose to live abroad. What is the mechanism Canada would use to sever them from everything to which they are entitled as Canadian citizens?

 

[brihard]

If a province separates, some of the people would be "separating" against their will - Canadians living in Alberta, for example, just as some Canadians choose to live abroad. What is the mechanism Canada would use to sever them from everything to which they are entitled as Canadian citizens?

It would have to be an omnibus act of Parliament amending a great many pieces of legislation. If there were an appetite to disenfranchise Canadians by amending the Citizenship Act, that would run up against strong Charter challenges. It would also just plain put be wrong.

Of course this all presupposes a referendum led to actual secession. A referendum would kick off constitutional negotiations, and an amendment to the Constitution Act. The Constitution Act does not actually specify a specific amending formula for leaving Canada; the most reasonable one would probably be section 43, requiring only the national Parliament and the legislature of the province in question. But at that, it doesn’t mean a referendum makes it a done deal. Hypothetically the population of a province could vote to secede, the negotiations start, voters begin to get buyer’s remorse, the next provincial election happens, and a party runs on a platform of “we will not go through with separation”. That party wins and ceases secession negotiations.

Any legal secession would be complicated and would take years.

 

[McG]

A Canadian who pays into CPP and later moves overseas is still entitled to and receives their benefits.

You talk about residents of a separated Alberta as “Canadians” but would they be? Would there be allowance for a province to separate and all the residents gaining new citizenship while retaining the old?

 

[brihard]

You talk about residents of a separated Alberta as “Canadians” but would they be? Would there be allowance for a province to separate and all the residents gaining new citizenship while retaining the old?

No law covering this eventuality exists. Absent new law, everything would default to what it is at present. If, tomorrow, a province became a separate sovereign state, either following a full lawful process or in a unilateral sedition, there would be no legal mechanism to strip citizenship from those who have it.

Under Canadian law, someone gaining new citizenship elsewhere has no bearing on their existing Canadian citizenship.

Wording a new law to disenfranchise and strip citizenship in the wake of a secession would be extremely complex. Think of all the possible permutations of how citizenship is gained, where people live and work, working overseas, etc etc. Qs a friendly thought exercise, I challenge you to propose a set of criteria for disenfranchisement that I cannot badly break by demonstrating how it would really screw loyal Canadians.

 

[PrairieFella]

Not sure if this has made it here yet but Rath is meeting with the Yanks for a 500BB line of credit if Alberta secedes. Does this not cross the line into sedition if not treason? Actively plotting with foreigners.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2014809815609180469

 

[McG]

A province separating from Canada is going to screw a lot of loyal Canadians on a lot of matters. But you can’t turn your back on the federation and expect to retain the benefits of the federation. Likely, the separatists will also not want a bunch of Canadian citizens hanging around and diluting their new claims of sovereignty.

A separation would necessitate negotiations. Those negotiations would need to address citizenship. Those negotiations should arrive at a solution that is disappointing to people who want to eat their pretty cake and keep it forever too.

 

[brihard]

Not sure if this has made it here yet but Rath is meeting with the Yanks for a 500BB line of credit if Alberta secedes. Does this not cross the line into sedition if not treason? Actively plotting with foreigners.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2014809815609180469

Neither offence is met by this. I will be really interested to see if this behaviour ends up caught by the foreign agent registry. I’ve not yet had the chance to read the proposed regulations on that.

 

[RangerRay]

Not sure if this has made it here yet but Rath is meeting with the Yanks for a 500BB line of credit if Alberta secedes. Does this not cross the line into sedition if not treason? Actively plotting with foreigners.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2014809815609180469

Who is this guy to think he represents anyone but himself, and why do the idiots in the Trump Administration think he has any legitimacy beyond a tiny aggrieved group? As far as I know, he doesn’t lead a party or other organization. He’s just a guy with an opinion.