Replacing the Subs

[Czech_pivo]

Meanwhile, more money being spent upgrading the Victorias (digital periscopes):

Canada Taps Safran for Victoria-class Submarine Modernization - Naval News

On February 26, 2026, Canada's MoD announced that it awarded a contract to Safran Trusted 4D Canada Inc. to provide digital periscopes.

www.navalnews.com

I saw that and was trying to understand the timelines overall. It seems to say that the project ended date is 2033. I guess they are prudently covering themselves in the case of us going with the Germans.

 

[Nvlgzr]

Meanwhile, more money being spent upgrading the Victorias (digital periscopes):

Canada Taps Safran for Victoria-class Submarine Modernization - Naval News

On February 26, 2026, Canada's MoD announced that it awarded a contract to Safran Trusted 4D Canada Inc. to provide digital periscopes.

www.navalnews.com

Didn’t we replace the periscopes 4 or 5 years ago?

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Yes. But you would be amazed at the speed at which "no-look-through" digital periscope technology evolves.

 

[Underway]

I saw that and was trying to understand the timelines overall. It seems to say that the project ended date is 2033. I guess they are prudently covering themselves in the case of us going with the Germans.

Version of the same periscopes that the Koreans use IIRC. Safran makes good stuff.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Didn’t we replace the periscopes 4 or 5 years ago?

Most likely 2 of them would be ‘slightly’ used when we list them for sale as 2nd hand

 

[OldSolduer]

Most likely 2 of them would be ‘slightly’ used when we list them for sale as 2nd hand

Gently used maybe?

 

[Rainbow1910]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/submarines-canada-korea-germany-jobs-9.7108627

Today is the formal deadline for bid submissions from Hanwha and TKMS for the CPSP.

Both companies and their respective governments have been told to expect a relatively swift decision by Prime Minister Mark Carney's government, with a selection being made as soon as late June, several sources told CBC News.

Between now and April 6, the federal government has reserved the right to ask both bidders clarifying questions about their submissions, the confidential sources added. After that the plans will be analyzed mostly through the lens of what economic benefits — both direct and indirect investment — can be brought to Canada.

The navy has already said both the South Korean KS-III and the German Type 212CD designs will deliver the capability it needs.

The South Koreans are promising to deliver four submarines by 2035, the year the navy plans to begin retiring its current fleet. The Germans have said publicly they can deliver a boat by 2032 with a steady ramping up of production afterwards.

Hanwha Ocean submitted its bid late last week, ahead of the deadline. The South Korean government and the conglomerate of Hyundai companies have been pitching to help Canada establish hydrogen fuel-cell facilities and corridors that could support railways or heavy-duty trucks, and potential automotive plant investment by Hyundai.

 

[Czech_pivo]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/submarines-canada-korea-germany-jobs-9.7108627

Today is the formal deadline for bid submissions from Hanwha and TKMS for the CPSP.

I'm going out on a limb and will say that the decision will be announced before the end of June.

 

[Czech_pivo]

CTV calling it - no new auto plants from either SK or Germany as part of their sub bids -

No new auto plants but here’s what else Germany and South Korea are offering in their submarine bids

Both Germany’s TKMS and South Korea’s Hanwha submitted their final bids to win a lucrative contract to build Canada’s next generation of submarines ahead of the March 2 deadline.

www.ctvnews.ca

No new auto plants but here’s what else Germany and South Korea are offering in their submarine bids​

Tens of billions of dollars in economic incentives are attached to the bids, but according to both German and Korean sources, neither proposal will contain an offer to build a car assembly plant in Canada, despite diplomatic pressure from Industry Minister Melanie Joly to attach autos to a sub deal.

 

[Rainbow1910]

CTV calling it - no new auto plants from either SK or Germany as part of their sub bids -

No new auto plants but here’s what else Germany and South Korea are offering in their submarine bids

Both Germany’s TKMS and South Korea’s Hanwha submitted their final bids to win a lucrative contract to build Canada’s next generation of submarines ahead of the March 2 deadline.

www.ctvnews.ca

No new auto plants but here’s what else Germany and South Korea are offering in their submarine bids​

Tens of billions of dollars in economic incentives are attached to the bids, but according to both German and Korean sources, neither proposal will contain an offer to build a car assembly plant in Canada, despite diplomatic pressure from Industry Minister Melanie Joly to attach autos to a sub deal.

From the article:

The federal government’s evaluation criteria are divided into four sections:

• Submarine platform, weighted 20 per cent
• Sustainment, weighted 50 per cent
• Financial, weighted 15 per cent
• Strategic and Economic Partnerships, weighted 15 per cent

The huge weight put towards sustainment really shows how important the overall bid is, more so than the submarine, the financials, partnerships or anything else present.

 

[Czech_pivo]

From the article:



The huge weight put towards sustainment really shows how important the overall bid is, more so than the submarine, the financials, partnerships or anything else present.

With the SK's pivoting to nuc boats going forward, does this impact their long term ability in sustainment?

 

[Rainbow1910]

With the SK's pivoting to nuc boats going forward, does this impact their long term ability in sustainment?

I would point out a few things:

1.) South Korea has a recent history of failed or heavily delayed naval projects, see their aircraft carrier and arsenal ship ambitions. Nuclear submarines are not easy or cheap to produce, don't be surprised if this entire endeavor falls apart or is heavily delayed.

2.) Korea has a significant conventional submarine fleet that it will be retaining for the foreseeable future, including a number of the exact same submarines Canada will be operating potentially.

3.) The Koreans will be contractually obligated to build and maintain this sustainment capability in Canada as part of their bid.

 

[Czech_pivo]

I would point out a few things:

1.) South Korea has a recent history of failed or heavily delayed naval projects, see their aircraft carrier and arsenal ship ambitions. Nuclear submarines are not easy or cheap to produce, don't be surprised if this entire endeavor falls apart or is heavily delayed.

Doesn't Germany have (had) similar issues with Frigates and/or Subs?

2.) Korea has a significant conventional submarine fleet that it will be retaining for the foreseeable future, including a number of the exact same submarines Canada will be operating potentially.

Which is a good thing in terms of continuing sustainability.

3.) The Koreans will be contractually obligated to build and maintain this sustainment capability in Canada as part of their bid.

Yes, as will the Germans.

So, it sounds like the SK's trying to move over to Nuc boats will not have a negative impact on their ability to maintain sustainability of our subs if we were to go with them.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

If Canada buys the KSS-III, then it's likley other countries will also consider it


India has shown interest in South Korean submarine technology, specifically looking at Hanwha Ocean’s KSS-III class submarines for its Project-75I (India), which seeks to build six advanced conventional submarines with Air-Independent Propulsion (AIP).
Here are the key details based on the current situation:

• South Korean Offer: Hanwha Ocean (formerly DSME) is pitching a 3000-ton variant of its KSS-III submarine, aiming to provide advanced technology and, in some proposals, considering full technology transfer.
• The Context (Project-75I): India is looking for conventional (diesel-electric) submarines with AIP to enhance underwater endurance. While India is simultaneously moving toward building more French-designed Scorpene-class submarines, the Project-75I tender has drawn interest from South Korea and Germany.
• Strategic Partnership: South Korean firms are highly active in the Indian defense sector, riding on the success of the K9 Vajra self-propelled guns. They are treating the potential submarine deal as a significant opportunity for deeper bilateral defense-industrial cooperation.
• Challenges: There have been reports of past tensions regarding attempts to acquire South Korean AIP technology, and competition for the Indian contract is fierce, with Germany's TKMS also in the running.
• Wider Scope: Beyond just purchasing, the partnership is focused on local manufacturing, with South Korean companies looking to utilize Indian shipyards, similar to their collaboration with Cochin Shipyard Limited.
  Reddit +7

As of late 2025/early 2026, South Korea is considered a top contender for India's next-generation submarine needs, with both nations strengthening their maritime defense ties.

 

[Cloud Cover]

CTV calling it - no new auto plants from either SK or Germany as part of their sub bids -

No new auto plants but here’s what else Germany and South Korea are offering in their submarine bids

Both Germany’s TKMS and South Korea’s Hanwha submitted their final bids to win a lucrative contract to build Canada’s next generation of submarines ahead of the March 2 deadline.

www.ctvnews.ca

No new auto plants but here’s what else Germany and South Korea are offering in their submarine bids​

Tens of billions of dollars in economic incentives are attached to the bids, but according to both German and Korean sources, neither proposal will contain an offer to build a car assembly plant in Canada, despite diplomatic pressure from Industry Minister Melanie Joly to attach autos to a sub deal.

A second and more concerning take is that after 4 subs, we are going to Canadianize the hell out of them and boondoggle the cost so high that 12 becomes significantly less.

“Previously Hanwha officials have said that each submarine will cost approximately $2 billion to build, but now the head of its Canadian subsidiary is indicating the cost could go up with the addition of Canadian components after the first four submarines are delivered.

“I think there’s an expectation that localization does come with a cost,” said Hanwha Canada CEO Glen Copeland in an interview last week, shortly after the company submitted its RFP. “But we’ve kept at a reasonable level for Canada that they will understand.”

Copeland did not provide new cost estimates. At this point TKMS has also not provided a cost estimate.”

 

[Rainbow1910]

A second and more concerning take is that after 4 subs, we are going to Canadianize the hell out of them and boondoggle the cost so high that 12 becomes significantly less.

“Previously Hanwha officials have said that each submarine will cost approximately $2 billion to build, but now the head of its Canadian subsidiary is indicating the cost could go up with the addition of Canadian components after the first four submarines are delivered.

“I think there’s an expectation that localization does come with a cost,” said Hanwha Canada CEO Glen Copeland in an interview last week, shortly after the company submitted its RFP. “But we’ve kept at a reasonable level for Canada that they will understand.”

Copeland did not provide new cost estimates. At this point TKMS has also not provided a cost estimate.”

Canadian built components to Korean specifications, that has been known for sometime as its been talked about for items such as lithium ion batteries which may be built in Canada.