LGBTQ Stuff (split from other political threads)

[Jarnhamar]

And he was doing so well.

Do you think the International Olympic Committee banning transgender women from women’s sports at the Games was a mistake?

 

[Halifax Tar]

And he was doing so well. The tweet he's responding to is even community noted, because the person in that photo isn't even trans and never was. That entire Paris 2024 affair was birthed from a disinformation campaign.

Pierre Poilievre backs J.K. Rowling's support for new Olympic gender policy

Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre is supporting a ruling this week by the International Olympic Committee that bans transgender women from women’s sports at the Games.

www.ctvnews.ca

https://twitter.com/x/status/2037515468345348393

Imane Khelif - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I'm begging you Pierre, please stop touching the poo.

I personally don't take issue and support the IOC in this decision.

 

[ArmyRick]

And he was doing so well. The tweet he's responding to is even community noted, because the person in that photo isn't even trans and never was. That entire Paris 2024 affair was birthed from a disinformation campaign.

Pierre Poilievre backs J.K. Rowling's support for new Olympic gender policy

Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre is supporting a ruling this week by the International Olympic Committee that bans transgender women from women’s sports at the Games.

www.ctvnews.ca

https://twitter.com/x/status/2037515468345348393

Imane Khelif - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I'm begging you Pierre, please stop touching the poo.

The VAST majority of Canadians are sick of this nonsensical crap. Get in step. This will strengthen his support not hinder it.

Keep supporting issues this and that, you will find you are in a very small minority, even amongst Liberal supporters.

 

[suffolkowner]

The VAST majority of Canadians are sick of this nonsensical crap. Get in step. This will strengthen his support not hinder it.

Keep supporting issues this and that, you will find you are in a very small minority, even amongst Liberal supporters.

i dont know if it will work in Canada. I think it was a part of the Republicans success in 2024 along with immigration but Canada is a bit more "liberal" and "progressive" so it might hurt PP more than help him at this time

 

[GR66]

Do you think the International Olympic Committee banning transgender women from women’s sports at the Games was a mistake?

I think the point is that PP expressed agreement with a post that is presenting inaccurate information. It takes away from the merits of a decision when the underlying point being presented as representing the issue is simply untrue.

It either indicates that PP is commenting on a subject on which he is unfamiliar with the actual facts, or he is aware of the facts and is instead comfortable with spreading an untrue narrative.

Either way I think it's this kind of thing that subtly reinforces the negative opinions that of a portion of the electorate holds about him...the same portion of the electorate that he will need to change their opinion of him in order to lead the Conservatives out of opposition.

 

[suffolkowner]

Do you think the International Olympic Committee banning transgender women from women’s sports at the Games was a mistake?

As i understand it the IOC is returning to a previous position of excluding men from womens competition. It doesnt have anything to do with trans necessarily at all. Individuals are going to be assessed as male based on an active SRY gene unless they have demonstrated androgen insensitivity

 

[Jarnhamar]

[

I think the point is that PP expressed agreement with a post that is presenting inaccurate information. It takes away from the merits of a decision when the underlying point being presented as representing the issue is simply untrue.

But agreeing with someone’s statement doesn’t automatically mean you endorse every detail of their post. Poilievre's broader point, supporting fair sport for women and girls, is separate from the inaccuracies in the original tweet.

And even then, how inaccurate is it? The woman in the picture was wrongfully accused of being transgendered, but there were still people who supported biological men competing against biological females. The issues surrounding testing and the rules were there prior to the two boxers wrongfully identified.

 

[GR66]

[

But agreeing with someone’s statement doesn’t automatically mean you endorse every detail of their post. Poilievre's broader point, supporting fair sport for women and girls, is separate from the inaccuracies in the original tweet.

And even then, how inaccurate is it? The woman in the picture was wrongfully accused of being transgendered, but there were still people who supported biological men competing against biological females. The issues surrounding testing and the rules were there prior to the two boxers wrongfully identified.

I'm sure there were literally hundreds if not thousands of posts about the IOC's decision that he could have liked and commented on but the one he chose to "What she said" to is the one that promotes the absolutely false narrative of "the scandal of Paris 2024, when people who consider themselves supremely virtuous and progressive publicly cheered on men punching women."

Yeah...saying you support a comment of a person that broadly paints people that may either support - or have nuanced positions - on transgender participation in sports as publicly cheering on "men punching women" when the example the original poster us using as their example is patently false is in my opinion definitely an example of stepping on your d*ck. Suggesting that anyone that may support trans rights is also "cheering on" violence against women isn't going to change the negative opinion that some people have of PP.

 

[Jarnhamar]

That's a fair assessment too. This could be the nail in the coffin that Poilievre appearing on Rogan's podcast was supposed to be.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Do you think the International Olympic Committee banning transgender women from women’s sports at the Games was a mistake?

Don't follow it. Don't care.

 

[OldSolduer]

Do you think the International Olympic Committee banning transgender women from women’s sports at the Games was a mistake?

No. Its time to get back to reality and not some make believe feel good crap that satisfies the very noisy minority.

 

[suffolkowner]

I'm sure there were literally hundreds if not thousands of posts about the IOC's decision that he could have liked and commented on but the one he chose to "What she said" to is the one that promotes the absolutely false narrative of "the scandal of Paris 2024, when people who consider themselves supremely virtuous and progressive publicly cheered on men punching women."

Yeah...saying you support a comment of a person that broadly paints people that may either support - or have nuanced positions - on transgender participation in sports as publicly cheering on "men punching women" when the example the original poster us using as their example is patently false is in my opinion definitely an example of stepping on your d*ck. Suggesting that anyone that may support trans rights is also "cheering on" violence against women isn't going to change the negative opinion that some people have of PP.

is there a statement from Imane Khelif that they are trans? I thought they had expressly denied that? Seems like the most likely interpretation is that they are 46,X,Y 5 alpha reductase deficiency

 

[GR66]

is there a statement from Imane Khelif that they are trans? I thought they had expressly denied that? Seems like the most likely interpretation is that they are 46,X,Y 5 alpha reductase deficiency

That's exactly my point. J.K. Rowling's post continues the false narrative that Imane Khelif is a "man" and that those that support "her" being in the Olympics are "cheering on men punching women". And unfortunately this is the post about the IOC decision that PP chose to support.

 

[The Bread Guy]

That's a fair assessment too. This could be the nail in the coffin that Poilievre appearing on Rogan's podcast was supposed to be.

I wouldn't go that far, but like others have said, how one agrees with a sentiment can shift people from "he's not so bad after all" to "who's he really sending that out to?" One person's blip is another's "see, told ya he hadn't changed". We'll see in the longer term.

There's a bit of truth to "one 'holy shit' can cancel out a lot of 'atta boy's'."

is there a statement from Imane Khelif that they are trans? I thought they had expressly denied that? Seems like the most likely interpretation is that they are 46,X,Y 5 alpha reductase deficiency

As of last month, she's quoted saying, "happy to be tested, thanks" ...

 

[suffolkowner]

That's exactly my point. J.K. Rowling's post continues the false narrative that Imane Khelif is a "man" and that those that support "her" being in the Olympics are "cheering on men punching women". And unfortunately this is the post about the IOC decision that PP chose to support.

well if Imane Khelif is 46 X,Y with 5 alpha reductase deficiency they are a man and would fail IOC testing. So JKR post would appear to be accurate. Was it wise for PP to draw attention to it? Probably not
Interestingly one of the other boxers Lin Yu-Ting that was also surrounded by rumour and innuendo has passed the sex testing

 

[GR66]

well if Imane Khelif is 46 X,Y with 5 alpha reductase deficiency they are a man and would fail IOC testing. So JKR post would appear to be accurate. Was it wise for PP to draw attention to it? Probably not
Interestingly one of the other boxers Lin Yu-Ting that was also surrounded by rumour and innuendo has passed the sex testing

The problem is that nature isn't as black and white as high school textbooks would have you believe. There is more variance in sex determination than simply XX = Female and XY = Male. There are various conditions where a female could present as having Y chromosomes but is born female with female genitals and female hormones.

For example (from ChatGPT):

1. Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome​

• Chromosomes: XY
• Cause: The body cannot respond to androgens (like testosterone) due to mutations in the androgen receptor.
• Result:
  • External genitalia appear typically female
  • No uterus or ovaries (because anti-Müllerian hormone is still produced)
  • Undescended testes (often internal)
• Often discovered: During puberty (e.g., no menstruation)

---

2. Swyer Syndrome​

• Chromosomes: XY
• Cause: Failure of testes to develop due to gene mutations (often involving SRY or related genes)
• Result:
  • Female external genitalia
  • Presence of uterus and fallopian tubes
  • “Streak” (nonfunctional) gonads instead of testes
• Often discovered: Delayed puberty

---

3. 5-alpha-reductase deficiency​

• Chromosomes: XY
• Cause: Lack of enzyme that converts testosterone into DHT (critical for male external genital development)
• Result:
  • External genitalia may appear female or ambiguous at birth
  • Masculinization may occur at puberty (voice deepening, muscle development)
• Often discovered: At puberty or earlier if ambiguity is noted

---

4. Partial Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome​

• Chromosomes: XY
• Cause: Partial ability to respond to androgens
• Result:
  • External genitalia may range from typically female to ambiguous
  • Degree varies widely between individuals

And to clarify it has been suggested above that Imane Khelif may be 46 X,Y with 5 alpha reductase deficiency, not confirmed that this is the case. What we do know is that she was born as a female with female genitals and female hormones and was raised as a female from birth. Also as noted above she has agreed to undergo genetic testing to confirm her condition if conducted by the IOC.

All that to say that this issue isn't as cut and dry as some 20-year old, fully developed guy deciding he wants to wear a skirt and compete against the ladies because he feels like he should be a woman like some portray it. There are some extremely complex genetic and medical issues that cloud the concepts of gender and exactly where some people may fall on the male/female spectrum.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I wouldn't go that far, but like others have said, how one agrees with a sentiment can shift people from "he's not so bad after all" to "who's he really sending that out to?" One person's blip is another's "see, told ya he hadn't changed". We'll see in the longer term.

Maybe. My bet is people's views are firmly entrenched at this point so it's more in the realm of "he's never had a real job" criticism.

Risking pissing off the Harry Potter JK Rowling hate club is brave. They're quite intense

 

[suffolkowner]

The problem is that nature isn't as black and white as high school textbooks would have you believe. There is more variance in sex determination than simply XX = Female and XY = Male. There are various conditions where a female could present as having Y chromosomes but is born female with female genitals and female hormones.

For example (from ChatGPT):

And to clarify it has been suggested above that Imane Khelif may be 46 X,Y with 5 alpha reductase deficiency, not confirmed that this is the case. What we do know is that she was born as a female with female genitals and female hormones and was raised as a female from birth. Also as noted above she has agreed to undergo genetic testing to confirm her condition if conducted by the IOC.

All that to say that this issue isn't as cut and dry as some 20-year old, fully developed guy deciding he wants to wear a skirt and compete against the ladies because he feels like he should be a woman like some portray it. There are some extremely complex genetic and medical issues that cloud the concepts of gender and exactly where some people may fall on the male/female spectrum.

i dont think its at all likely that Khelif has CAIS or PAIS that has been suggested for Lin Yu-Tang though
supposedly in this article Khelif acknowledges some of these issues including the presence of an active SRY however it is behind a paywall

Les confidences d'Imane Khelif, la championne olympique de boxe accusée d'être un homme : « Je n'ai rien fait pour changer la manière dont la nature m'a faite »

Médaillée d'or aux Jeux de Paris, Imane Khelif a été l'objet d'une controverse mondiale, menée par Donald Trump et Elon Musk, qui l'accusent d'être un homme. La boxeuse algérienne évoque les conséquences de cet embrasement et confie, pour la première fois, avoir eu recours à un traitement hormonal.

www.lequipe.fr

and this one suggests that what tests were already done that it is a 5 ARD condition (cue Russian etc)

Imane Khelif, the IOC, World Boxing and mandatory sex testing | 3 Wire Sports

The female category in sport is for women and girls – individuals with XX chromosomes. Identity is not biology. To pretend otherwise is not only to make a mockery of any notion of fairness but, in the case of boxing, risk serious injury or worse. Now, with Algeria’s Imane Khelif said to be on t

www.3wiresports.com

A 46 XY with 5ARD individuals are sometimes born with ambiguous genitals and are or were often assigned a sex at birth that is not realised to be correct until puberty. Theres a lot of messed up stuff that used to happen back in the day including removal of the penis