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Iran Super Thread- Merged

Still struggling to think through.

Regime survival is the basic goal.

What are their stretch goals if they achieve those and how would they achieve them?
You go ahead and state those if you think they're important. You probably know them better than I do. They aspire to be a big fish in their pond, meddling with neighbours in general and pursuing a religious grudge match with Israel in particular. Not a wise fight to pick, but as you say, ideology. For a change they're enjoying the novelty of reacting, only the opening round has been a lot more damaging than a few rockets launched into residential neighbourhoods. At this point, Iran will have to stretch just to get back to where it was and should probably not waste much money unless it can put together a defence sufficient to prevent going through all this again. Just making it harder won't be enough - if it takes 12 weeks to do what used to take 4 weeks, they still end up replacing the same stuff again. They won't know whether it's enough until it's tested, and they won't know if the Other Side has been clever enough to figure out ways to make Iran's next set of gear just as ineffectual as the old. Their best gear and adaptations right now are apparently good enough to handle '80s aircraft with upgrades.

Meanwhile they have other pressing problems, and while almost anyone can close the Strait, it's much harder to force it open. Iran needs trade, too.
 
1) Unless you want to put in a National Energy Program, prices for oil will not be set in Canada. So what happens over there still matters economically over here.

2) Nobody is building pipelines to anywhere in weeks. Let alone filling them.
True but if we can provide reliable oil and gas to the world then prices can stabilize.
I’m not certain about the part about EC, I’ve just read the Irving will be replacing Saudi oil with Newfie oil for its Saint John refinery. The question should be, why is Irving not using Newfie oil in Saint John all along? It’s complete BS that they are not. Ship oil a few hundred miles or ship it thousands of miles from Saudi?
Anyone have any ideas on this?
Oil for weapons program, cheaper oil (embargo oil mixed in), tanker contracts, Bombardier and SNC to name a few reasons.
whats cheaper?
Embargo oil mixed with legit oil from the ME.
 
I can't imagine the Israelis or the Americans are shedding many tears over the occasional detonation in Qatar given their - shall we say duplicitous - role in association with Hamas.

Jordan, Kuwait, Bahrain and Oman have been as solidly in the western camp as any in that region are likely to be.

Yemen has never been the same since Denis Healey yanked Mad Mitch from the Crater. They could have gone the Oman route.

Which leaves the House of Saud and the UAE.

I would have thought the UAE would have been solidly in the western camp as well. I think they still are despite the enemy of my enemy stuff in the Sudan.

The continuing problem is the religious civil war within the House of Saud - the liberals and the conservatives with neither side moving past their illiberal tendencies.

And Pakistan is in much the same boat as the House of Saud.

Iraq, like Yemen, Syria and Lebanon, is just a battlefield.

Turkey sits on the sidelines and looks for opportunities

Iran, and in particular, the IRGC mob, sits in the middle. As I have said before it played the same role in Afghanistan and Iran as Cambodia and Laos did in Vietnam. Sovereign sanctuaries protected by, and exploiting, the laws of the United Nations.

If Trump is going to act like a bull in a china shop he might as well make sure he smashes all the crockery.
In my opinion all of the slaver states should be overthrown and relegated to the dustbin of history. UAE and Saudi are evil regimes and in a just world theyd be sanctioned to high heaven. Theyre vile and we should wash our hands of them in any way possible.
 
In my opinion all of the slaver states should be overthrown and relegated to the dustbin of history. UAE and Saudi are evil regimes and in a just world theyd be sanctioned to high heaven. Theyre vile and we should wash our hands of them in any way possible.

Unfortunately it is a hard slog when everyone is your enemy all at once.

You have to keep chipping away at the edges. And even then it turns out that nations have very long memories, as the Brits are finding out. No friends left.
 
Almost missed this with all the buzz around the shootdowns today.

Not clear whether or not they paid a toll. So either deals are being made or Iran might be honoring the highlighted.


Iran initially shut the Strait - a route for about a fifth of global oil and LNG flows - after U.S. and Israeli airstrikes on Iran at the end of February led to a widening conflict. Later, it said it would ⁠permit transits by ships with no U.S. or Israeli links.

The French vessel changed its Automatic Identification System destination to "Owner France" before entering Iranian waters, signalling its nationality to Iranian authorities.

Japan's Mitsui O.S.K. Lines said on Friday that the LNG tanker, Sohar LNG, which ⁠it co-owns, had crossed the Strait, making it the first Japan-linked vessel and the first LNG carrier to do so since the conflict began.

Its spokesperson declined to tell Reuters when the passage occurred or whether negotiations were required.

The ⁠India-flagged ship signalled its destination as "India ship India crew"
 
Depending how you look at it, Trumps special military operation:

  • stopped (or drastically slowed) Iran from building nuclear weapons;
  • exposed Iran's ability to create a significant shipping choke hold;
  • exposed Iran's drone capabilities; and
  • reminded the world how precarious our dependence on oil from the middle east is.
 
I'm not actually sure if there's a military solution to this anymore
There is definitly a military solution, the real question is whether or not the West cares enough to follow through on it.

You don't need to own the Iranian coast, you just need to keep killing them until the people shooting at tankers decide living is worth more than "death to America"... It worked with the Houthi, there is no reason it can't work in Iran.

As much as people in the West right now are keen to point out our difficulties, Iran is suffering far worse, and so are their enemies in the Persian Gulf. At this point it's a case of weaking/degrading Iran to the point that the Gulf States can manage to open the straits enough to get their products to market.
 
What has Venezuela and this done to China ?

Accelerated their electrification and reopened coal plants to reduce imports while creating new markets for their renewables. Watched the US (and Gulf allies) massively deplete interceptor and high end PGM stockpiles while their production is ramping up, ensuring that at least have the upper hand on numbers probably for the next few years.

Also not convinced this isn't turning into a strategic economic gain the more the Iranians demand their ransom in RMB.

Lastly, isn't oil from Venezuela still going to China after paying the Trump slush fund tax?
 
I think people are letting their emotions get in the way of things. This is a bad day for an Airforce

Bang on - although I suspect things would have been different if social media was around then to the extent it is now.
What has Venezuela and this done to China ?
Well, they're paying more for O&G and may have to think twice about Taiwan, but they can also now say to some fence-sitters "you gonna trust the U.S. to help you out, buddy? Talk to me ..." as well as maybe poke more where the U.S. isn't looking. I trust China to take better advantage of the latter bits given its ability to look at the long game given their lack of electoral cycle unpleasantness that hobbles democracies :)

Meanwhile, ISW on Houthi & Co.: "Key Takeaway: The Houthis have entered the Iran war but have not joined Iran’s regional economic warfare campaign, indicating a restrained approach that aims to avoid international blowback. The Houthis have threatened to join Iran’s campaign with attacks across the region, likely to coerce the United States and its allies into making concessions in negotiations with Iran and deter further military escalation against Iran and the wider Axis of Resistance. The Houthis are unlikely to follow through on these threats unless the United States and its allies cross certain Houthi or Iranian red lines, such as the Gulf states entering the war or ground operations against Iran, to avoid retaliation from the United States and its allies that would jeopardize the group’s domestic position ..."
 
Depending how you look at it, Trumps special military operation:

  • stopped (or drastically slowed) Iran from building nuclear weapons;
  • exposed Iran's ability to create a significant shipping choke hold;
  • exposed Iran's drone capabilities; and
  • reminded the world how precarious our dependence on oil from the middle east is.

There's no serious analyst that didn't know these things before. Come on.

Heck, in 2007 I was on an Int analysis course in Kingston. As part of a final exercise we red teamed Iran reacting to Israeli (and possibly US) strikes. We closed the Straits and attacked on fields to jack up the oil prices so much that the US would force Israel to capitulate.

Fun fact on that course. I looked at the map and did a basic time-space-force analysis to show there was absolutely no way for the Israelis could do this without the US. Which is also why when red teaming, the obvious move was maximum economic pain.

I wasn't some Mideast specialist. I was a student on a 3 week course with a map, ruler and PowerPoint. It was really obvious moves. And every commodities analyst has always known this risk. The change arguably has been the rise of cheap tools to do so (with the Shaheds and cheaper sensors) giving the Iranians asymmetric advantage.
 
Almost missed this with all the buzz around the shootdowns today.

Not clear whether or not they paid a toll. So either deals are being made or Iran might be honoring the highlighted.


So far this is working to get ships out. I think something like 2000 ships are trapped in the Gulf. There's crews running out of food.

The things I'm watching for, is, who is going back in.....
 
There's no serious analyst that didn't know these things before. Come on.

You're right. Analysts knowing something doesn’t mean governments or the public actually internalize or act on it though. Risk sitting on a briefing slide isn’t the same as risk driving policy.

We know it takes a real world shock to force prioritization. The September 11 attacks are the clearest example. The threat of terrorism was well understood in intelligence circles, but it still took a catastrophic event to trigger major structural and policy changes. 2004 Canadians driving around Afghanistan in a pop can thin jeep is another example.

So even acknowledging Iran’s capabilities weren’t ‘new,’ forcing them into the open at a global, political level where voters, markets, and governments can’t ignore them can still shift behaviour in ways quiet analysis never does.

Had this not kicked off now what kind of capability would Iran have 5 or 10 years down the road? What if in those 5 or 10 years they decided to close down the straight only then they have nuclear missiles aimed at countries instead of drones.
 
What has Venezuela and this done to China ?

My thoughts on the implications for China:

To start, I believe China’s main strategic objectives are:

1. Stability and perpetuation of their current political regime.
2. Capture and integration of Taiwan with mainland China.
3. Regional economic dominance and military leverage
4. Global economic integration and leverage.

Essentially they want to own their region of Southeast Asia, subject to the realistic constraints imposed by rival powers. Their strategy, I believe, is to leverage their autocratic system to maintain campaign plans much longer than those western democracies can. In this long game approach they will buy whatever they can, and finance as much else as they’re able so that they firmly control resource and trade flows. Where they can extend this reach globally, they will. Somewhere in all this they’ll invade Taiwan.

So that said- Iran (and I guess Venezuela) as it pertains to China:

1. China’s biggest geopolitical foil is the United States and the systems of alliances and relations it maintains. America’s hamfisted approach to Iran, in the context of its increasingly abusive treatment of allies and trading partners, weakens the counterbalance to China. China, without having to change a thing, comes out looking relatively more reasonable, reliable, and predictable than it did before because Americas has become less these things. China becomes relatively more attractive than it was as a trade partner and diplomatic alignment.

2. The destruction within Iran provides massive opportunity for China to flood in capital to rebuild industry and infrastructure. Those familiar with the ‘Belt and Road’ initiative will see in this economic opportunity that China loves to exploit. Help another country build, and do it on terms where now they owe you and are beholden to you. To a lesser extent some of this opportunity may be found in other Gulf states too.

3. China already enjoyed access to Iranian oil at a discount. This will remain the case subject to necessary rebuilding.

4. China is benefitting from a real life torture test of American IADS and other combat systems. From Iran’s attacks on the region, China will learn some things applicable to an eventual assault on Taiwan. Everything from the performance and vulnerability of individual systems, to the economics of flooding a system with cheap munitions to attrition it and empty magazines. While much of this could be theorized, China gets to observe a natural experiment play out.

5. Depletion of American munitions stocks will create a short to mid term window of opportunity for aggression against Taiwan. Doesn’t mean they’ll take it, but everyone will know it’s there, and that’s leverage.

6. Current American capabilities are being laid bare to a certain extent. How they fight, what works, what has soft spots. Some outright weaknesses.

7. China is suffering somewhat from the short term impact on oil and other commodity markets. But, as a supplier of some finished/refined products to other regional countries, China is seeing how those countries respond to shortages. This helps China understand and calibrate their own leverage. (”We regret your comments regarding our operations in the vicinity of our wayward province, and note with concern your logistical support to the United States. Now, moving on. If you turn to page six you’ll note that urgent maintenance will force offline some of our refineries in the coming days. Regrettably…”)

Anyway, some Saturday morning coffee thoughts as I sit here between diaper changes.
 
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