CAF Security Forces [Split from RCN Anti Drone Weapon]

[Kirkhill]

They don't want to move, and the bar for entry is pretty low...

We aren't looking for mall cops, with an online security certificate. We already have those with the Commissionaires.

That's peculiar . I was under the impression a major impediment to recruiting and retention was relocation.

 

[Furniture]

Thinking back to years of shift work as a cop I’d say the math on this checks out. Any less than that, training and surge capacity suffer as illness, injury, vacation, and parental leave eat into it.

There willl be a need for regular individual and collective training. Scheduling for that can get tricky.

I managed a section that had 1 24/7 position, and I had 5 members to cover it, and two day workers... Us day workers spent a lot of time on shift covering for exactly the reasons you mentioned. Which meant our work didn't get done as we worked the shifts. It is a mess on most wings to this day.

 

[Brad Sallows]

I can see lots of Bosuns maybe giving this a shot.

Unless the navy is quick off the mark with marine naval base defence organizations.

 

[Furniture]

That's peculiar . I was under the impression a major impediment to recruiting and retention was relocation.

How many young people in Greenwood do you think match the specific requirements for the new RCAF occupation? What about Cold Lake, Comox, etc...

Now, of that pool, how many want to be in the CAF at all? How many want to do shift work? How many want to do security shift work?

Hiring locals isn't as easy as you make it out to be, unless you are looking for mall cops, and even then it's pretty hard because of the boredom and shift work.

 

[dapaterson]

I managed a section that had 1 24/7 position, and I had 5 members to cover it, and two day workers... US day workers spent a lot of time on shift covering for exactly the reasons you mentioned. Which meant our work didn't get done as we worked the shifts. It is a mess on most wings to this day.

No, the operators assure me that you just have to work smarter and we can further reduce the size of your organization.

 

[Furniture]

No, the operators assure me that you just have to work smarter and we can further reduce the size of your organization.

My appologies, I'll bring my swag to work so I can just nap between tasks. I'd hate to let the operators down again...

 

[dapaterson]

My appologies, I'll bring my swag to work so I can just nap between tasks. I'd hate to let the operators down again...

See, if you can sleep at work clearly there's not enough work for you to do.

Who do you think you are, a fire fighter?

 

[AmmoTech90]

We aren't looking for mall cops, with an online security certificate. We already have those with the Commissionaires.

Make the new security force Peace Officers? Or make the CCoC replacement Peace Officers with security force back up? Limited responsibilities and limited statute enforcement, less training but they still get full spectrum use of force if needed. Like Alberta Sheriffs. RCMP RCAF Sheriff Service. RCMP RCAF SS.

Edit: RCAF not RCMP

 

[Furniture]

Make the new security force Peace Officers? Or make the CCoC replacement Peace Officers with security force back up? Limited responsibilities and limited statute enforcement, less training but they still get full spectrum use of force if needed. Like Alberta Sheriffs. RCMP Sheriff Service. RCMP SS.

I'm not sure what the legal framework is for the new RCAF trade, but I know the intent is to have an armed defence/security force, and the Commissionaires are not suited to that task, regardless of legal status.

 

[markppcli]

I can't imagine how civilians are convinced to become security guards in their home towns.

Because its a generally easy sedentary job requiring minimal qualifications ? Take a look at your average security guard and tell you see some one with lots of options.

 

[KevinB]

Make the new security force Peace Officers? Or make the CCoC replacement Peace Officers with security force back up? Limited responsibilities and limited statute enforcement, less training but they still get full spectrum use of force if needed. Like Alberta Sheriffs. RCMP Sheriff Service. RCMP SS.

Depends on how they are used -- realistically the Minister can waiver away anything respecting to status -
But yeah I think there needs to be some Civilian PO training in respect to the UofF and powers of arrest.

 

[The Bread Guy]

... I dont know how much infantry type stuff you'll get up to patrolling the cold lake flight line but hey I could be wrong ...

You're right to be skeptical, but from my limited understanding of the RAF Regiment (if this is the model to be adopted - as you say, details will tell) - part of their job includes "protecting" airfields, including patrolling in buffer zones around landing strips set up in the field. IF that's the model, they'd have to know that in case they deployed with the planes. If it's more of a "gunned up cop shop," you'd be right.

As always, I look forward to being corrected if I'm misunderstanding.

 

[AmmoTech90]

I'm not sure what the legal framework is for the new RCAF trade, but I know the intent is to have an armed defence/security force, and the Commissionaires are not suited to that task, regardless of legal status.

I may be misunderstanding your response, but I specifically said CCoC replacement, therefore not the CCoC or similar security companies.

 

[Furniture]

I may be misunderstanding your response, but I specifically said CCoC replacement, therefore not the CCoC or similar security companies.

Ah... It's a new trade. It will be CAF members, similar to the RAF Regiment or USAF Security Forces.

 

[brihard]

Depends on how they are used -- realistically the Minister can waiver away anything respecting to status -
But yeah I think there needs to be some Civilian PO training in respect to the UofF and powers of arrest.

Legally speaking, any necessary powers to use force could be assumed by the Minister under crown prerogative to administer national defence. Same legal principle as CAF issuing 404s that allow operation on duty or in CAF vehicles on provincial roads.

Obviously it would be very prudent for there to be a solid and comprehensive policy put in place. Peace Officer or Public Officer status would be better because of the explicit protections it brings under section 25 of the Criminal Code.

 

[AmmoTech90]

Ah... It's a new trade. It will be CAF members, similar to the RAF Regiment or USAF Security Forces.

Yeah thats the point of the thread. I will be very surprised if a small trade can provide the positions and work needed to secure bases by themselves.
The two other nations, closest to us, that have similar needs and organizations (UK & US) all use multiple organizations for security. Both have an armed civilian presence (MOD Police and what ever the US call their non-MP DoD cops). The UK goes further with an un-armed but uniformed guard service that does things like dogs. For the UK there are two military units that provide armed security, the RAF Regt and the Military Provost Guard Service. The MPGS is a reserve organization that provides bodies with weapons to back up the MoD Plod and MGS and when the RAF Regt isn't around. Don't know if the US have similar but their SF and DOD Police are very well staffed.

We need 9 infantry battalions plus reserve augmentation to provide one deployed battalion. If we want to provide a decent security footprint over a deployed airfield we would need at least a company. This equates to need 9 companies (flights?) of security. Ripping out over 10% of an organization for a deployment that has a full time job normally will hamstring it. That's why there multiple layers that don't have to deploy but don't have mortars, ADA, or ATGMs. These things, currently, do not have role in Canadian security, but do in deployed security.

I have my doubts that Canada will be able to generate a single, all singing, all dancing security organization for air field security when other countries, with much better budgets, have seen the need to make different layers of capability. Maybe we're just better but I know that's a lie.

My first post was in response to your post:

We aren't looking for mall cops, with an online security certificate. We already have those with the Commissionaires.

Indicating that we were looking for security forces that aren't CCoC. If you meant for the new RCAF unit to do all that then I will refer you to my comments above.

 

[Furniture]

Yeah thats the point of the thread. I will be very surprised if a small trade can provide the positions and work needed to secure bases by themselves.
The two other nations, closest to us, that have similar needs and organizations (UK & US) all use multiple organizations for security. Both have an armed civilian presence (MOD Police and what ever the US call their non-MP DoD cops). The UK goes further with an un-armed but uniformed guard service that does things like dogs. For the UK there are two military units that provide armed security, the RAF Regt and the Military Provost Guard Service. The MPGS is a reserve organization that provides bodies with weapons to back up the MoD Plod and MGS and when the RAF Regt isn't around. Don't know if the US have similar but their SF and DOD Police are very well staffed.

We need 9 infantry battalions plus reserve augmentation to provide one deployed battalion. If we want to provide a decent security footprint over a deployed airfield we would need at least a company. This equates to need 9 companies (flights?) of security. Ripping out over 10% of an organization for a deployment that has a full time job normally will hamstring it. That's why there multiple layers that don't have to deploy but don't have mortars, ADA, or ATGMs. These things, currently, do not have role in Canadian security, but do in deployed security.

I have my doubts that Canada will be able to generate a single, all singing, all dancing security organization for air field security when other countries, with much better budgets, have seen the need to make different layers of capability. Maybe we're just better but I know that's a lie.

My first post was in response to your post:

Indicating that we were looking for security forces that aren't CCoC. If you meant for the new RCAF unit to do all that then I will refer you to my comments above.

My post was a response to another post indicating that hiring security locally would be a simple solution.

As for the rest of your post, what is needed remains to be seen. We don't yet know exactly how the new trade will be employed, and what other security measures will be put in place alongside them. Declaring it a failure before it even gets off the ground is the most CAF/Canadian thing ever though...

 

[Blackadder1916]

Of course, the important question is, as always, will those who go to San Antonio get bling?

Specifically, the Force Protection basic badge. Supposedly, this occupational badge is authorized on completion of the security force 3-skill level tech school.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Of course, the important question is, as always, will those who go to San Antonio get bling?

Specifically, the Force Protection basic badge. Supposedly, this occupational badge is authorized on completion of the security force 3-skill level tech school.

View attachment 100561

Looks suspiciously like....



Everyone wants to be Airborne until it comes time to do Airborne stuff

 

[Blackadder1916]

Almost everybody gets a badge in the USAF.

Everybody but him.

The heraldic device that surrounds the badge aren't "wings" but an "olive wreath" to denote the peace that the air force defends. A common element in many of their occupation badges.