Latest from VARD re. CDC. Seems to have evolved to be more in line with what VAdm Topshee has stated he'd like to see in this class. Of note the "minimum" 16 MK41 VLS. 107.7 m in length, so close to the stated preference of 105 m. 21,333 SHP, 26+ knots. Pretty impressive credentials.
Continental Defence Corvette
- Thread starter Underway
- Start date
Oldgateboatdriver
Army.ca Fixture
- Reaction score
- 5,251
- Points
- 1,010
They only screwed up one thing: The hull number. 290 makes it a destroyer, which they are not.
Maxman1
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 3,074
- Points
- 1,190
Since our last corvettes, the Flower and Castle classes, were all over the place with hull numbers, being in the 100, 200, 300 and 400 sequence, maybe we could start at K100. Or maybe continue from a previous class like Halifax, which would be K342, or Kingston, which would be K712.
PrairieFella
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 4,227
- Points
- 1,110
Do we have a historical or traditional naming prefedent for corvettes? Flower class names seemed all over the place.
Oldgateboatdriver
Army.ca Fixture
- Reaction score
- 5,251
- Points
- 1,010
We do. While the Flower class corvettes built for the British were named after flowers, the Canadian ones were named after Canadian cities and towns. As such, they were not "all over the place" except in terms of location of their associated municipality.
Halifax Tar
Army.ca Legend
- Reaction score
- 19,620
- Points
- 1,260
- Reaction score
- 9,466
- Points
- 1,210
This is better. The hull form has changed to be ice resistant and leaves the rounded icebreaking form from a number of CANSEC models behind.
A work deck astern of the flight deck for modular payloads while a solid midships crane/boat launch section accounts for larger UXV launch and recovery.
Single fire control radar for the main gun makes sense. Redundancy not required on this smaller ship.
Space for radar of choice, even perhaps two radars (air search rotating and AESA fixed).
Interesting they went with the sonor dome on the bottom similar to the HFX class. Makes me concerned about damaging it off during ice operations. You can bring the sonar up, but the dome stays in place.
Feels a little crammed with the twin 30mm, but as it looks like they are trying an integrated comms mast that makes sense.
Looking at that speed... that's quite good. Like to push it to 27+
Don't like where the survival rafts are located. They generally require inspection at times. Bit awkward for them under the bridge wings.
A work deck astern of the flight deck for modular payloads while a solid midships crane/boat launch section accounts for larger UXV launch and recovery.
Single fire control radar for the main gun makes sense. Redundancy not required on this smaller ship.
Space for radar of choice, even perhaps two radars (air search rotating and AESA fixed).
Interesting they went with the sonor dome on the bottom similar to the HFX class. Makes me concerned about damaging it off during ice operations. You can bring the sonar up, but the dome stays in place.
Feels a little crammed with the twin 30mm, but as it looks like they are trying an integrated comms mast that makes sense.
Looking at that speed... that's quite good. Like to push it to 27+
Don't like where the survival rafts are located. They generally require inspection at times. Bit awkward for them under the bridge wings.
- Reaction score
- 9,466
- Points
- 1,210
I also noticed that.
Oldgateboatdriver
Army.ca Fixture
- Reaction score
- 5,251
- Points
- 1,010
Where would you have the dome? At the front like the RCD's? That would be the first thing to hit ice.
I just don't think there is such a thing as a safe place to put a sonar dome on a ship meant to go in ice infested waters. Every time, it will be a chance you take.
- Reaction score
- 6,872
- Points
- 1,160
Ice knives on the hull in front of the radar dome to deflect the ice? Could they be retractable when not operating near the ice in order to reduce the noise effect?
- Reaction score
- 18,284
- Points
- 1,160
I am guessing in the 3,000 DWT range?
- Reaction score
- 3,108
- Points
- 1,090
i feel like any extra time, money and people Irving has should be directed to building the Rivers quicker
Oldgateboatdriver
Army.ca Fixture
- Reaction score
- 5,251
- Points
- 1,010
Irving built the Halifax's, but did not design them. They were designed by a Canadian subsidiary of Bath Iron Works, which was fresh from working on the Oliver hazard Perry class of frigates for the US Navy, aided by the naval architects of Gibbs and Cox (Americans) aided by a Canadian Naval architect firm from Ontario (can't recall the name) that doesn't exist anymore. All the electronics, command, computers and communications systems were designed by Paramax, in Montreal, a subsidiary of then Sperry, before it became United Technologies.
Irving only finished building the MCDV's. They were designed by Fenco/Lavalin and were being built by Halifax Shipyard when it was acquired by the Irving's to become ISL.
They did not design the RCD they are about to build. BAE Systems designed them and help the small in-house design team of the Irving's to modify the design to Canada's requirements.
They did not even design the AOPS. The Government ordered the design separately and provided it to Irving. It came from BMT Fleet Technology assisted by Acker Yards Marine (known today as Vard Marine).
- Reaction score
- 9,466
- Points
- 1,210
Apparently they are aware of this and were talking about a reinforced dome for ice operations at CANSEC. But as usual you are correct. Its probably in the least likely place to take an ice hit, as the bow will push light ice out and away from the dome ideally.
Noah is reporting that they are looking at multiple yards building the CDC's at the same time (batches of 3 or 4), probably two yards.
- Reaction score
- 9,466
- Points
- 1,210
There is also the option of not having an HMS, and having a fixed towed array but that seems... backwards to me. HMS isn't modular but a towed array can be.
What are your thoughts on the matter?
Oldgateboatdriver
Army.ca Fixture
- Reaction score
- 5,251
- Points
- 1,010
That's an interesting question. While Topshee brands the CDC as "Halifax like" capability, they are definitely not set up to be in the same league where ASW is concerned. So it really all comes down to how is the RCN planning to incorporate such vessels into the ASW picture?
To me, a HMS screams short range self-defense, not active hunting, but I don't see any anti-torpedo system planned for the class, so that limits your options to attempting evasion. Moreover, likely location of deployment also matters. if mostly at or near the ice edge, a HMS is gonna be right at the level of all the ice noise with a seriously degraded capability as a result.
If the idea is that in peacetime, they are fitted with basic ASW system (HMS), to be supplanted by on-board helicopter and plug-in full VDS/towed array combination in war time. then I have no problem with that. Otherwise, if the idea is to always have only basic self protection and you want to avoid the problems caused by ice, then I suggest to replace the HMS by an actual small but permanent VDS - no towed array attached.
I know, that is way-back-when technology, but it works. Heck! you can even bump the sonar right onto the submarine (it's been done before)
- Reaction score
- 13,438
- Points
- 1,160
If a surface vessel were operating in co-operation with uuvs and neede to communicate with them would the r/t facility look like a sonar dome?
And these corvettes, are they to operate in the ice or are they just supposed to survive in the slob at the ice edge?
And these corvettes, are they to operate in the ice or are they just supposed to survive in the slob at the ice edge?
Has anyone thought that one through yet? Strictly from watching the series put on TV for northern freight delivery there seems to be no clear dividing line. One day they are operating at the edges in the slob as you termed it but the next day the wind has come up and they are struggling to get clear of the ice. Will an ice strengthened hull give you the safety margin or do you have to go one better and have the ability to maneuvre in at least first year ice?
