Alberta Paramedics

[mariomike]

Saw this in another thread. Will reply here.

How well does serving as a medic in the CAF transfer into civilian applications?

I would just like to know all of my options and possible career pathways before I dedicate my 20s to servitude in the CAF,

I would not consider time in the CAF as "servitude". You may wish to consider the CAF as your career choice.

But, if one's ambition is to get out of the CAF - before you even join the CAF - you should know that Alberta Paramedics are unionized.

So, you may wish to inquire if the Senior Qualified process is applicable to becoming a Tactical, TEMS or ETF Paramedic with your desired future employer.

ie:

Senior Qualified Process: job postings shall be filled on a senior qualified basis.

Kang_13

would serving in the CAF provide any significant advantage towards beating out the competition for TEMS?

Depends if the Senior Qualified process is applicable.

If it is, and you "dedicate my 20s to servitude in the CAF", you may find younger candidates beating you out of the competition for TEMS.

Typically members join straight out of college.

Being older, but with less departmental seniority than younger members, you will be at "a significant DISadvantage towards beating out the competition for TEMS."

But, only if there is a Senior Qualified process for staffing their Special Operations Division ( Tactical being only one the the Division's specialties ).

You should contact your future - post CAF - employer of choice for guidance.

 

[CBH99]

Saw this in another thread. Will reply here.



I would not consider time in the CAF as "servitude". You may wish to consider the CAF as your career choice.

But, if one's ambition is to get out of the CAF - before you even join the CAF - you should know that Alberta Paramedics are unionized.

So, you may wish to inquire if the Senior Qualified process is applicable to becoming a Tactical, TEMS or ETF Paramedic with your desired future employer.

ie:



Kang_13


Depends if the Senior Qualified process is applicable.

If it is, and you "dedicate my 20s to servitude in the CAF", you may find younger candidates beating you out of the competition for TEMS.

Typically members join straight out of college.

Being older, but with less departmental seniority than younger members, you will be at "a significant DISadvantage towards beating out the competition for TEMS."

But, only if there is a Senior Qualified process for staffing their Special Operations Division ( Tactical being only one the the Division's specialties ).

You should contact your future - post CAF - employer of choice for guidance.

The above is fair advice, especially that last sentence.

With AHS, I know from personal experience, finding any information that's truly helpful to potential applicants is next to impossible. One thing AHS is absolutely terrible at is recruiting (I could easily suggest this applies across the board, but it's very true when it comes to EMS)


If you are looking at getting into Tactical EMS, they are with the Public Safety Unit. Typically folks have to work for AHS for a minimum of 2 years prior to applying - the PSU guys tend to send out an invitation to apply twice a year or so via email.

Will the CAF experience help? Absolutely it will!

But the PSU crew tend to have a lot of ex-military guys (currently have a former CSOR medic in the unit) so if you're planning on getting into the CAF, getting qualified as a Med Tech, and then leaving to try and fast track your way into PSU...think again.


Get qualified with ACP. Get hired on with AHS (you might have to be a casual at first for a while - I can't emphasize enough how truly fucked up our HR department is)

Once you get your foot in the door by getting hired by AHS, you can always reach out to them to see what they are looking for. You could even ask to sit in on some of their training days if you wanted, which also helps your face be remembered when they want some peeps to apply.


There may be a formal program in place for you to apply to, but everybody I know on the PSU (EMS side) had some informal discussions with PSU before they made any formal moves to apply for PSU.

(And I think I know them all...)



Short Answer - having CAF experience certainly won't hamper your chances...

 

[CBH99]

Saw this in another thread. Will reply here.



I would not consider time in the CAF as "servitude". You may wish to consider the CAF as your career choice.

But, if one's ambition is to get out of the CAF - before you even join the CAF - you should know that Alberta Paramedics are unionized.

So, you may wish to inquire if the Senior Qualified process is applicable to becoming a Tactical, TEMS or ETF Paramedic with your desired future employer.

ie:



Kang_13


Depends if the Senior Qualified process is applicable.

If it is, and you "dedicate my 20s to servitude in the CAF", you may find younger candidates beating you out of the competition for TEMS.

Typically members join straight out of college.

Being older, but with less departmental seniority than younger members, you will be at "a significant DISadvantage towards beating out the competition for TEMS."

But, only if there is a Senior Qualified process for staffing their Special Operations Division ( Tactical being only one the the Division's specialties ).

You should contact your future - post CAF - employer of choice for guidance.

One thing I can and do absolutely give Toronto EMS credit for (basing this purely on your past posts) is they run their EMS hiring in a similar way to how law enforcement agencies out here run theirs...

Apply. Write an aptitude test. Interview. Fitness test. Board interview. Selection committee. Recruit classes. In house training. Graduate from recruit class. Probationary period. Graduate probationary period & are good to go.

Almost like there is an actual pipeline people have to make it through, and applicants know where they are at in the recruiting process.


...

With us?

No aptitude test.

A 1 on 1 interview to ensure applicants have completed the required training & generally assess the applicant. Applicant provides proof of certifications for any required.

No fitness test.

I've never heard of someone having to do a panel interview.

Get a job offer - usually to be a casual first (so unpredictable and tend to be fairly low hours.)

(AHS is cheap and would much prefer to run with fewer ambulances on the street than actually call in any casuals. We have long lists of casuals who barely get called in despite a very clear need for there to be more available, because "The fire department is there to help cover things off when we find ourselves a bit short...")


Once hired, AHS does run a 2 week orientation to review codes, run an EVOC (emergency vehicle operations course), review the various pieces of kit again, and learn the lay of the land. Then you get partnered up with a senior medic for a while


We do

 

[mariomike]

Get qualified with ACP.

Saw this in another thread,

Question:

Are there any options for getting Advanced Care Paramedic equivalency level training?

Answer:

ACP is not a thing in the CAF.

Question:

Is ACP a thing in Alberta TEMS?

In Ontario, Tactical Paramedics are,

Licensed as Advanced Care Paramedic ( ACP ) and currently employed and continue to be employed as a full-time Advanced Care Paramedic with an ambulance service in Ontario to ensure familiarity and comfort with required medical procedures.

Current certification in Advanced Care Paramedic according to the Ambulance Act of Ontario.

Ability to maintain certification as an Advanced Care Paramedic with Base Hospital.

Must maintain an emergency patient care role at their paramedic service. Any other roles (administrative, training, community paramedicine) which do not inlcude regular emergency patient care will make them ineligible.

I would just like to know all of my options and possible career pathways before I dedicate my 20s to servitude in the CAF, especially with the current state of things.

If someone wants to become an Advanced Care Paramedic ( ACP ) in Alberta, according to the Alberta College of Paramedics, these are the approved ACP programs in that province:

• KEYANO COLLEGE, Fort McMurray (Conditionally approved. Currently not accepting new applications for the 2024/2025 program years.)
• MEDICINE HAT COLLEGE, Medicine Hat
• NAIT, Edmonton
• NORTHERN LAKES COLLEGE, Slave Lake (Approved with condition)
• PORTAGE COLLEGE, Lac La Biche
• PROFESSIONAL MEDICAL ASSOCIATES, Calgary and St.Albert
  Additional Program: ACP Refresher: Calgary and St. Albert
• SAIT, Calgary

 

[mariomike]

Was reading about,

The Alberta College of Paramedics

"Regulating the Paramedic Profession Together in the Service of Albertans"

We don't have a "College of Paramedics" in Ontario, so I found it of interest.

Alberta College of Paramedics – We’re continuously working for the good of both the public and the paramedic profession—because higher standards of practice today equal a healthier Alberta tomorrow.

The Alberta College of Paramedics Regulating the Paramedic Profession Together in the Service of Albertans CALL FOR CONSULTATION The College invites you to participate in the consultation on proposed changes to the SoP (1.5), Protected Professional Titles and Endorsements. CHALLENGE COIN...

abparamedics.com

 

[mariomike]

Saw this in ,

Liberal (Minority/Majority) Government 2025 - ???​

A simple start would be standardizing the Provincial doctors associations and nursing associations so one who is qualified to work in one province can work in every province.

That might work for some professions,. But, not for Paramedics.

Some provinces, Alberta for example, allow people to call themselves Paramedics. As long as they pay a fee.

Even though they are not part of the 9-1-1 system.

Whereas , to work as a paramedic in Ontario, you have to be working for a paramedic service in a 911 capacity.

 

[medicineman]

Not everyone who works in paramedicine does work for a 911 system though - many work in industrial sites, we have them working in nursing stations in northern Manitoba helping in the ED or doing dressing changes or screening patients - none on ambulance though, except for the places that actually have an ambulance service. If you have a diploma in paramedicine from an accredited institution, you're a paramedic...you just might not be a licensed one somewhere, but that doesn't diminish that.

 

[mariomike]

Not everyone who works in paramedicine does work for a 911 system though - many work in industrial sites, we have them working in nursing stations in northern Manitoba helping in the ED or doing dressing changes or screening patients - none on ambulance though, except for the places that actually have an ambulance service. If you have a diploma in paramedicine from an accredited institution, you're a paramedic...you just might not be a licensed one somewhere, but that doesn't diminish that.

Right

Self-regulated ( eg. Alberta and Manitoba ) vs Government-regulated ( eg. Ontario) , is not better , or worse.

Just different.

 

[medicineman]

Self-regulated ( eg. Alberta and Manitoba ) vs Government-regulated ( eg. Ontario) , is not better , or worse.

Just different.

Do they still go with the "AEMCA" designation in Ontario and then once you're working call you a Paramedic, even if you went through a paramedic program in an Ontario College? That was still a thing when I was posted in Kingston in the late 90's...

The folks I work(ed) with in Northern MB weren't all from MB incidentally - some were from NS, SK, NB, PEI, ON...much like a lot of the nurses I worked with, since the stations are largely Federally run. Odd there's no longer a national license for things like nursing/medicine - there used to be a one for docs that worked in the CAF or other federal agencies, but they now require at least one provincial license to practice, as the Canadian Medical Council (I think that's what it was) license wasn't a regulatory body like a College of Physicians and Surgeons is...just said the person was qualified to practice. Place I work at now has a local ambulance service, that's oddly an agency as opposed to Provincial EMS/Northern Regional Health Authority - the trucks have provincial EMS livery, but the medics' shoulder badges are from CriticCare EMS...

 

[mariomike]

Do they still go with the "AEMCA" designation in Ontario and then once you're working call you a Paramedic, even if you went through a paramedic program in an Ontario College?

Only familiar with City of Toronto.

According to the Level 1 ( Level 1 is the entry level ) Job Call in the City.

Successfully completed the Advanced Emergency Medical Care Assistant (AEMCA) examination or be AEMCA pending as specified in the Ontario Ambulance Act.

PARAMEDIC LEVEL 1

PARAMEDIC LEVEL 1

jobs.toronto.ca

The thing is , applicants will be 911 , and nothing but 911, until the day they retire.

 

[medicineman]

You mean unless they decide to moonlight elsewhere or quit to work elsewhere?

 

[mariomike]

You mean unless they decide to moonlight elsewhere or quit to work elsewhere?

I moonlighted the CAF , Corrections and Brinks.

Never considered quitting my first, and last , full-time job.

One thing our Retired Chief mentioned at one of our pensioner luncheons was he put the blame on the colleges for not making candidates aware of what they are getting into.

That there were " horror stories " , as he put it , of recruits mentally breaking down when the reality of the work set in.

 

[medicineman]

I moonlighted the CAF , Corrections and Brinks.

Never considered quitting my first, and last , full-time job.

One thing our Retired Chief mentioned at one of our pensioner luncheons was he put the blame on the colleges for not making candidates aware of what they are getting into.

That there were " horror stories " , as he put it , of recruits mentally breaking down when the reality of the work set in.

I meant moonlighting in paramedicine outside of the 911 system...though I've met many paramedics that were combat or other arms reservists over the years, just to do something different for work/life balance...and bring added life experience to their other jobs

 

[Blackadder1916]

. . . Odd there's no longer a national license for things like nursing/medicine - there used to be a one for docs that worked in the CAF or other federal agencies, but they now require at least one provincial license to practice, as the Canadian Medical Council (I think that's what it was) license wasn't a regulatory body like a College of Physicians and Surgeons is...just said the person was qualified to practice. . . .

Unless I was in a coma for a few years and it happened while I was asleep, physicians in the CAF (and those working for us as civilians) always had to be licensed in a provincial/territorial jurisdiction and it didn't have to be the jurisdiction where they were posted. There was never a "national license". As long as they treated only patients in the military system not a problem. Okay, sometimes a problem when the military system intertwined with providing care to civilians (dependents et al), such as when we operated facilities like NDMC, CFH Cold Lake and a couple of the isolated locations in BC who provided dependent care. The wrinkle being that to bill the province for primary care services, the physician had to have a provincial billing number (usually tied to their provincial college registration). It wasn't an issue in Germany because we billed GSMIP/PSHCP.

In most cases CAF doctors have no problem getting registered in the province where they are posted because one of the requirements for all GDMOs is CCFP. But back several decades, when one could get an unrestricted license to practise in some jurisdictions with only one year of an internship/residency there were sometimes complications for those wanting to moonlight locally at a doc-in-a-box. When I commissioned, at my first BHosp posting, one of our newly minted MOs constantly complained that she couldn't get an Alberta license because they required two years postgrad while the province where she had got her initial unrestricted license, at that time, only required one year.

Edited to add

Back in the dark ages, as I tie the onion to my belt, one of the oddities of licensing medical professionals in the CF was that nurses had to be registered in a province in ordered to be accepted and enrolled as a Nursing Officer, but (in one interpretation of the rules) there was nothing mandating that they maintain registration once in the military. While docs (and pharmacists) could claim, and be paid for their annual licensing fees, military nurses did not have their annual registration fees reimbursed. Thankfully, that changed.

 

[mariomike]

I meant moonlighting in paramedicine outside of the 911 system...though I've met many paramedics that were combat or other arms reservists over the years, just to do something different for work/life balance...and bring added life experience to their other jobs

In Ontario , to work as a paramedic , you have to be working for a paramedic service in a 911 capacity.

Toronto did have paramedics who worked 911 for other municipalities ( like Peel , York and Durham ) as "two- hatters" . I don’t think it was right, as our City did not employ two- hatters . Full-time only. It there is a shift to be filled , it was covered by OT.

Also, if there was a Call-in for a disaster in the city, you weren't much use to city taxpayers if you were two-hatting in one of the Regions .

The fire union is very much opposed to two-hatters.

START AI

Two-hatters," or "double-hatters," refers to full-time, unionized firefighters who also work as paid-on-call or volunteer firefighters in their home communities. The Ontario Professional Fire Fighters Association (OPFFA) and the International Association of Fire Fighters (IAFF) strictly oppose this practice.

END AI

We got seven days off at a time , so just about everyone had a side job.

One thing to consider, if one gets injured " moonlighting ". I don't think the benefits are as good.

Eg. I read on here about injured Reservists in that situation.

Ombudsman slams military’s treatment of injured reservists

Ombudsman slams military’s treatment of injured reservists, rangers | RCI

'There are 9 recommendations out of the 4 reports, and none have been fully implemented,' Gregory Lick says

ici.radio-canada.ca

There are Event "Medics" in Toronto. But , they do not use the word "Paramedic". They cannot transport to hospital. Just their First Aid post.

If you want a Paramedic in an ambulance that can transport, you have to ante up and hire Paid Duty Paramedics from the Department.

That is what FIFA demanded.

On the other hand , the Blue Jays go cheap and hire private " Medics".

The CAF recuited me as an MSE Op .

Never had a desire to be a Med Tech. For one thing , I could work an OT shift on my full-time job , and come out ahead financially.

 

[medicineman]

Unless I was in a coma for a few years and it happened while I was asleep, physicians in the CAF (and those working for us as civilians) always had to be licensed in a provincial/territorial jurisdiction and it didn't have to be the jurisdiction where they were posted. There was never a "national license". As long as they treated only patients in the military system not a problem. Okay, sometimes a problem when the military system intertwined with providing care to civilians (dependents et al), such as when we operated facilities like NDMC, CFH Cold Lake and a couple of the isolated locations in BC who provided dependent care. The wrinkle being that to bill the province for primary care services, the physician had to have a provincial billing number (usually tied to their provincial college registration). It wasn't an issue in Germany because we billed GSMIP/PSHCP.

In most cases CAF doctors have no problem getting registered in the province where they are posted because one of the requirements for all GDMOs is CCFP. But back several decades, when one could get an unrestricted license to practise in some jurisdictions with only one year of an internship/residency there were sometimes complications for those wanting to moonlight locally at a doc-in-a-box. When I commissioned, at my first BHosp posting, one of our newly minted MOs constantly complained that she couldn't get an Alberta license because they required two years postgrad while the province where she had got her initial unrestricted license, at that time, only required one year.

Edited to add

Back in the dark ages, as I tie the onion to my belt, one of the oddities of licensing medical professionals in the CF was that nurses had to be registered in a province in ordered to be accepted and enrolled as a Nursing Officer, but (in one interpretation of the rules) there was nothing mandating that they maintain registration once in the military. While docs (and pharmacists) could claim, and be paid for their annual licensing fees, military nurses did not have their annual registration fees reimbursed. Thankfully, that changed.

I had a newly minted MO that couldn't get his Capt's promotion because he trained in Quebec and, despite having his CCFP, couldn't qualify for a license there because their qualification exam has one of the highest failure rates in the country on the first try...he had to apply for a license in NB just so he could get promoted, paid and not needing a countersignature for all his prescriptions, since he was technically still a resident. When I joined in the Bronze Age, there were still people practicing after a single year rotating internship OR as IMG's on a Medical Council of Canada cert of some sort...I'm sure if I could dig up one of the stone tablets/paper tomes the CFMS used regarding this it would jog my memory or if it was in the recruiting brochures from back in the 80's when I first applied to ROTP in high school. I'm old enough to remember that they were training residents in surgery and infernal medicine at NDMC when I was a baby Med A on my 3's and 5's there - though I'm pretty sure only one of those programs was actually accredited. I did my 4's at CFH Cold Lake when they were still looking after dependants and there weren't any civilian docs working there at that particular time that I can remember.