The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)

[Altair]

as for helping out PMMC, (if we are allowed to call him Uncle, god help PP for what I will call him), he's fine.

Canadians Favour Gripen over F-35

[Ottawa – December 17, 2025] As the debate over Canada’s next-generation fighter jet continues, Canadians are leaning decisively away from an all-F-35 future.

www.ekospolitics.com

43+29, carry the one....72 percent of canadians would support the Gripen in some capacity. The Gripen would win a supermajority in an election and we don't even know what their tax policy is.

 

[ArmyRick]

as for helping out PMMC, (if we are allowed to call him Uncle, god help PP for what I will call him), he's fine.

Canadians Favour Gripen over F-35

[Ottawa – December 17, 2025] As the debate over Canada’s next-generation fighter jet continues, Canadians are leaning decisively away from an all-F-35 future.

www.ekospolitics.com

View attachment 100920

43+29, carry the one....72 percent of canadians would support the Gripen in some capacity. The Gripen would win a supermajority in an election and we don't even know what their tax policy is.

When PM MC steers in the direction I agree with or he does something I approve, he gets "Uncle Mark"

I am very happy with the direction defence is heading under Uncle Mark. The F35 is a dicey issue, I will admit. But Globaleye is a win. We never had an AWACS plane. Same with HIMARS. Waiting to see which sub he picks, either way its better than no subs (which is what trudeau would have gone with)

 

[Altair]

When PM MC steers in the direction I agree with or he does something I approve, he gets "Uncle Mark"

I guess PP is safe from any moniker from me then.

I am very happy with the direction defence is heading under Uncle Mark. The F35 is a dicey issue, I will admit. But Globaleye is a win. We never had an AWACS plane. Same with HIMARS. Waiting to see which sub he picks, either way its better than no subs (which is what trudeau would have gone with)

So the question is, do you like the process we are going through to buy the subs? Build autos here, we buy subs work for you?

 

[ArmyRick]

So the question is, do you like the process

Process. Depends. On the F35 vs Gripen, in my mind that was settled twice, under the Harper and then Trudeau Government.

I realize we have to balance most effective choice vs the best interest for our economy, sometimes both can meet together (like the LAV6 is an excellent wheeled AFV)

I never want a choice made just to flip off our American friends.

That being said, there have been many decisions made I do agree with. Take Globaleye, I assume it was the ideal solution beyond wanting to make friends with Saab. We already use products from Saab like the Carl G.

You have probably heard by now, I am a big fan of South Korea's kit. They make good stuff. So do many Europeans. Especially the Swedes. For many years they stood on their own and faced down the Soviet Bear, solo. Norway (Kongsberg), Sweden (Saab) and Finland (Patria) have three defence companies that make excellent kit.

On defence, process has been compromised many times in the last several decades (both Liberal and conservatives have been very guilty of it), using defence procurement as a political football.

 

[Altair]

Process. Depends. On the F35 vs Gripen, in my mind that was settled twice, under the Harper and then Trudeau Government.

I realize we have to balance most effective choice vs the best interest for our economy, sometimes both can meet together (like the LAV6 is an excellent wheeled AFV)

I hope the RCAF comes around to that realization but i doubt it.

I never want a choice made just to flip off our American friends.

Which is fair.

That being said, there have been many decisions made I do agree with. Take Globaleye, I assume it was the ideal solution beyond wanting to make friends with Saab. We already use products from Saab like the Carl G.

You have probably heard by now, I am a big fan of South Korea's kit. They make good stuff. So do many Europeans. Especially the Swedes. For many years they stood on their own and faced down the Soviet Bear, solo. Norway (Kongsberg), Sweden (Saab) and Finland (Patria) have three defence companies that make excellent kit.

You know what, i wasnt aware finland made the patria. Screw it, they should buy the lav6 then. Fair is fair.

On defence, process has been compromised many times in the last several decades (both Liberal and conservatives have been very guilty of it), using defence procurement as a political football.

Youre right, but if we can get substantial benefits out of it I believe its worth it.

Jury is out on that though.

 

[YZT580]

I wonder: with all the wizardry associated with the F35 and with the capabilities of the simulators will the flight crews actually get to fly them much or will the spend most of their time in the sim? Same question regarding the Gripen. If they get significantly more time they probably won't complain as much as you think

 

[Czech_pivo]

New week, new direction coming from the US.

"........ the U.S. could work well with Canada on the sixth-generation fighters. You may get an invitation to join the U.S. as part of a consortium to do the sixth gen on fighter planes,” he said. Your choice. You wanna partner with the U.S. or not? Not our decision.”

https://nationalpost.com/news/trump-administration-growing-impatient-with-canadas-delayed-f-35-choice

Trump administration growing impatient with Canada’s delayed F-35 choice​

The debate over the F-35 is not just about air combat; Canada is also deciding whether it wants a role in what comes next

Carney’s team is reportedly mulling whether to seek observer status in the UK-Japan-Italy Global Combat Air Programme (GCAP), a sixth-gen fighter program plagued by money and timing issues that some fear could affect Japan’s commitment. British Defence Secretary John Healey recently resigned over a lack of British defence spending he feared threatened GCAP.
Hoekstra poked holes in the notion of a European partnership for Canada.
“Europe was working on sixth gen, and they’ve been working on it for more than five, maybe 10 years. The partnership between Spain, Germany, and France, poof, gone. F6 is gone. Gen 6 is gone in Europe,” he said.
“I know you’ve been looking at doing business in Europe on defence. You’re not gonna be doing it on Gen 6.”ontent
So should Canada be looking to join a sixth-gen program and, if so, does it matter whether it opts for the GCAP or an American-led system?

 

[KevinB]

The original intent (prior to 47 taking over) was that the NGAS (now F-47) was to be available to at least the 5Eye folks. We have obviously jumped the shark between that intent and now - but interesting to see that option may be opening again -- it is quite frankly the only way to afford enough F-47 is to make it available to other allies.

 

[Czech_pivo]

The original intent (prior to 47 taking over) was that the NGAS (now F-47) was to be available to at least the 5Eye folks. We have obviously jumped the shark between that intent and now - but interesting to see that option may be opening again -- it is quite frankly the only way to afford enough F-47 is to make it available to other allies.

Its impossible to know what is 'real' and what is not right now coming out from this administration. Best to discount all that is said and wait until a new one comes into power. Don't shut any door completely, just wait to see what occurs Jan of 2029.

 

[Good2Golf]

Its impossible to know what is 'real' and what is not right now coming out from this administration. Best to discount all that is said and wait until a new one comes into power. Don't shut any door completely, just wait to see what occurs Jan of 2029.

Join GCAP as a Tier 3 partner, as we did for JSF.

Contractually, the F35 can can be kicked well down the road.

Hoegstra seems to have forgotten about GCaP when he said Euro Gen 6 is dead.

 

[KevinB]

Join GCAP as a Tier 3 partner, as we did for JSF.

At least tier 3, preferably tier 2 (albeit not sure what Canada has to offer in that regard).

Contractually, the F35 can can be kicked well down the road.

You need at least 66 to replace the Hornets for NORAD, that can is getting pretty see through based on the times it has been kicked down the road.

Hoegstra seems to have forgotten about GCaP when he said Euro Gen 6 is dead.

Well technically GCAP is Global just not Europe

 

[Good2Golf]

At least tier 3, preferably tier 2 (albeit not sure what Canada has to offer in that regard).

The GCAP Tier that Canada joins with, will be solid I&W for whether *any type of NGAD/F-47 collaboration happens. Tier 2, Canada’s going Global…Tier 3, it’s keeping its options open to see if the U.S. recovers from its hegemonic degradation and can be a bit more productive than vindictive when it comes to playing nice with others with *whom it wants to spread programmatic (development, procurement and in-service support) costs.

You need at least 66 to replace the Hornets for NORAD, that can is getting pretty see through based on the times it has been kicked down the road.

At least two more purchase option cycles for that, so three years+ of political manoeuver space.

Well technically GCAP is Global just not Europe

Hoegstra being mindful and nuanced as he often is.

 

[childs56]

At least tier 3, preferably tier 2 (albeit not sure what Canada has to offer in that regard).

Canada provides a niche market of sensor fusion and electronic systems. It is not talked about much, but it is a valuable aspect of tech that is required for the systems to all work together. This little box to talk to that little box that makes the woo-way thing spin.
Some of the issues with the F35 and its implementation/ integration of the latest radars and senser systems may be linked to the US trying to limit what allies can have and not have access to on their F35 Platforms. Causing not only a sensor fusion issue but operability of the platform.
The sensor fusion of the systems on the F35 relied on Canadian Tech. They were part of the initial program for such.
Time will tell how things may go on.

I wonder with the 6th gen program, which Canada was very interested in but the US initially beat around the bush with us with our participation. Again they "need" us as part of the program (really they tell everyone they can do it alone). Now we might be seeing a change in heart of how the US does defense R&D/ partnership with Canada now that we have other partners that are very interested in our skills, resources and tech.

I don't think Canada is wrong to partner with Saab for the Gripen along with the GlobalEye as they will work together nicely. (it is a bit expensive per jet) The Gripen may not be the actual platform we are after, it might very well be the future cooperation we will have and the current sensor fusion/integration of the overall system they have .
I say order the full 88 F35s, order 60 Gripens for ferry flights and bulk of patrols. Get the assembly of the aircraft here, Hopefully SAAB will open up shop her in more R&D in Defense research.

You need at least 66 to replace the Hornets for NORAD, that can is getting pretty see through based on the times it has been kicked down the road.

Well technically GCAP is Global just not Europe