Directives to military chaplains urge expunging God, religion from Remembrance Day, public ceremonies

[The Bread Guy]

No, because it has been made clear that complaints are seen as racist, or at the very least paint you are a racist leaning person...

Take for example the Eagle Staff. It is carried and talked about at CAF events, yet there is no equivalent Christian, Islamic, Zoroastrian, Buddhist, or other animist relic carried. The Eagle Staff is talked about in entirely religious wording, but we pretend it isn't religion because it's inconvenient.

The disconnect can only exist so long, before people call it out in ways less polite than a post on an online forum.

Good point. Here's what it says in the policy re: Indigenous rituals ....

CAF members or attendees are not required to participate in any spiritual component of these practices.

... although I hear ya 100% re: what's in writing vs. being the one to say, "no, thanks" in public in that kind of situation.

 

[lenaitch]

In a non-military-event context that I have been party to, it has been argued that smudging et al is 'cultural' or medicinal ('sacred traditional medicines') rather than religious. View that as you wish.

It is also interesting to note that many institutions and municipalities specifically exempt smudging ceremonies from their indoor fire/burning codes.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I'm generally very libertarian, almost anarchist in my belief that individuals should be allowed to decide their own life course and in this case faith.

But religion is one of the few things I think needs to be banned, outright.

If you think guns kill people, you should see what religion has done. We as humans are not mature enough to play nice with our different pretend dead dudes in the clouds.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Yes...

I have been at multiple events in my career where a smudging or other indigenous prayer ritual was conducted without my consent, and without my ability to opt-out. In exactly the same way people have complained about being forced to endure Christian religious prayer and ceremony.

I haven't been part of one of these, yet.

But I always thought I would politely decline.

 

[markppcli]

No, because it has been made clear that complaints are seen as racist, or at the very least paint you are a racist leaning person...

Take for example the Eagle Staff. It is carried and talked about at CAF events, yet there is no equivalent Christian, Islamic, Zoroastrian, Buddhist, or other animist relic carried. The Eagle Staff is talked about in entirely religious wording, but we pretend it isn't religion because it's inconvenient.

The disconnect can only exist so long, before people call it out in ways less polite than a post on an online forum.

I turned down smudging at a Bold Eagle course and no one seemed to care.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I turned down smudging at a Bold Eagle course and no one seemed to care.

No harm, no foul ?

 

[markppcli]

No harm, no foul ?

I mean id prefer it not be a part of the parade at all frankly. However there's context with indigenous cultural practices being suppressed for a large chunk of Canada's history so its not exactly tit for tat.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I mean id prefer it not be a part of the parade at all frankly. However there's context with indigenous cultural practices being suppressed for a large chunk of Canada's history so its not exactly tit for tat.

I think we're onside.

Definitely not denying wrongs done. I just don't feel any personal responsibility for their experiences.

 

[markppcli]

I think we're onside.

Definitely not denying wrongs done. I just don't feel any personal responsibility for their experiences.

Collective responsibility as an organization though.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Collective responsibility as an organization though.

Maybe ?

Sounds like a slippery slope when you go down the collective responsibility lane.

Correct the policies and deal with the individuals who perpetrate wrongs. Is more my scene.

 

[Jarnhamar]

... although I hear ya 100% re: what's in writing vs. being the one to say, "no, thanks" in public in that kind of situation.

Can you imagine that? The brigade change of command parade gets put on hold while Private Jarnhamar and Corporal Bread Guy march off so they're not present for the smudging ceremony and whatever FN ceremony.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Can you imagine that? The brigade change of command parade gets put on hold while Private Jarnhamar and Corporal Bread Guy march off so they're not present for the smudging ceremony and whatever FN ceremony.

Yeah, that would be the discrete way to do it, right?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

No, because it has been made clear that complaints are seen as racist, or at the very least paint you are a racist leaning person...

Take for example the Eagle Staff. It is carried and talked about at CAF events, yet there is no equivalent Christian, Islamic, Zoroastrian, Buddhist, or other animist relic carried. The Eagle Staff is talked about in entirely religious wording, but we pretend it isn't religion because it's inconvenient.

The disconnect can only exist so long, before people call it out in ways less polite than a post on an online forum.

Loved it in a big environmental meeting, the head government person asked the Chief to conduct a FN ritual to start the meeting, so he recited the Lords Prayer, a LOT of uncomfortable shuffling went on with all the government types who wanted some FN ceremony, myself I had to suppress my laughter. Talking to him after, I think he did it on purpose as the senior government types were pretty pretentious.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Loved it in a big environmental meeting, the head government person asked the Chief to conduct a FN ritual to start the meeting, so he recited the Lords Prayer, a LOT of uncomfortable shuffling went on with all the government types who wanted some FN ceremony, myself I had to suppress my laughter. Talking to him after, I think he did it on purpose as the senior government types were pretty pretentious.

I recall standing next to a First Nations' leader, from BC's West Coast, when a smudging ceremony was going on - he did not participate.

He leant over to me and said, in a slightly condescending manner: "Smudging is a prairie people's custom. They're always showing off in public. We prefer to conduct our religious ceremonies in private, in the long house."

 

[Jarnhamar]

Yeah, that would be the discrete way to do it, right?

The other option could be telling soldiers if they don't want to be involved in a religious/spiritual ceremony they can opt out of the parade.

I personally enjoy FN ceremonies quite a bit but think them being used in CAF events writ large is shallow land- acknowledgement stuff.