CAN Enhanced (Permanent?) Fwd Presence in Latvia

[Underway]

Couldn't count RCN personnel on ship in Baltic, could they?

That' would only amount to approx 80 pers as it will be MCDV's likely.

 

[KevinB]

It’s a ground application.
I have it on decent authority Canada was told to field an Armored Bde ( the one Canada has promised for ages… queue Canada quickly searching for one)

 

[Colin Parkinson]

It’s a ground application.
I have it on decent authority Canada was told to field an Armored Bde ( the one Canada has promised for ages… queue Canada quickly searching for one)

Next Morning, the entire Ontario Armoured Regiment Museum gets called up......

 

[AmmoTech90]

It’s a ground application.
I have it on decent authority Canada was told to field an Armored Bde ( the one Canada has promised for ages… queue Canada quickly searching for one)

Kev, you've mentioned this commitment by Canada to contribute an armoured/heavy Bde to NATO. Where is the source for that. Looking at NATO websites, DFAIT, DND I couldn't find it. I was involved in one of Canada's commitments, stemming from the 2002 Prague Convention, to provide live agent CBRN training. We used a document that listed the Canada's commitments from 2014ish to secure funding each year. I do not recall seeing a Bde on that. There were other significant assets but no Bde.
The document in question was supposed to be re-issued each year but of course documenting commitments is too hard in this day and age as the GoC/CAF might be held to it.
Not trying to be a dick, just wondering.

 

[dapaterson]

Haven't seen it as a news release yet, but it's in the media:

Canada to lead upgraded NATO combat force in Latvia

Canada has signed an agreement to upgrade the NATO battlegroup it leads in Latvia to a brigade, a move that signals a commitment to the military alliance even as the federal Liberals resist calls to boost defence spending to two per cent of GDP.

www.ctvnews.ca

 

[rmc_wannabe]

I have to ask.... what possible Armour are they talking about?
Even if we send every last Leo 2A4 that can be flat bedded to Montreal,, do we have ARVs, AEVs, or other assets needed for it to be functional (bridge laying comes to mind along with other Armoured Eng assets we sold off post Afghanistan)

 

[GR66]

I have to ask.... what possible Armour are they talking about?
Even if we send every last Leo 2A4 that can be flat bedded to Montreal,, do we have ARVs, AEVs, or other assets needed for it to be functional (bridge laying comes to mind along with other Armoured Eng assets we sold off post Afghanistan)

The article says that the existing Battle Group will be expanded to a Brigade and that Canada will lead it. It doesn't say that Canada will be deploying a full Brigade.

In theory we could replace our current Company-level commitment with a full Battalion and replace our Battle Group HQ with a Brigade HQ with another partner nation taking over our existing Battle Group commitment and yet others taking on the non-infantry Battalion components of the Brigade.

 

[McG]

Haven't seen it as a news release yet, but it's in the media:

Canada to lead upgraded NATO combat force in Latvia

Canada has signed an agreement to upgrade the NATO battlegroup it leads in Latvia to a brigade, a move that signals a commitment to the military alliance even as the federal Liberals resist calls to boost defence spending to two per cent of GDP.

www.ctvnews.ca

So, the MN BG becomes a MN Bde Gp. Our mech company should grow to a Mech BG, and we should provide an Arty Regt (-) and an Engr Regt (-) which will both integrate allied sub-units to reach full strength. We should also have a Svc Bn which is separate from the NSE so that it is mobile and able to support a mobile brigade. We will (hopefully) also see Spain, Italy, and Slovakia increase their mech companies up to BGs and maybe each to provide a CS sub-unit to the Bde assets.

 

[McG]

do we have ARVs, AEVs,

We have both and, if all our tanks are consolidated into Edmonton & Latvia, we have enough of both.

 

[KevinB]

Kev, you've mentioned this commitment by Canada to contribute an armoured/heavy Bde to NATO. Where is the source for that. Looking at NATO websites, DFAIT, DND I couldn't find it. I was involved in one of Canada's commitments, stemming from the 2002 Prague Convention, to provide live agent CBRN training. We used a document that listed the Canada's commitments from 2014ish to secure funding each year. I do not recall seeing a Bde on that. There were other significant assets but no Bde.
The document in question was supposed to be re-issued each year but of course documenting commitments is too hard in this day and age as the GoC/CAF might be held to it.
Not trying to be a dick, just wondering.

See PM

 

[Edward Campbell]

I'm guessing the knitting needles and crochet hooks will be super-busy making companies look like battalions and an understrength battle group or two look like a brigade.

Unless I've missed something, the Canadian Forces, especially the Army, is a Potemkin village sort of affair - there is nothing much behind most of the facades.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

The article says that the existing Battle Group will be expanded to a Brigade and that Canada will lead it. It doesn't say that Canada will be deploying a full Brigade.

In theory we could replace our current Company-level commitment with a full Battalion and replace our Battle Group HQ with a Brigade HQ with another partner nation taking over our existing Battle Group commitment and yet others taking on the non-infantry Battalion components of the Brigade.

I think this is the shell game we're going to end up trying to play, but I don't see our partner nations playing along. there is already a lot of friction within the Spanish and Italian Camps about how little "punching above our weight" matters to those who have brought most of the toys to the playground.

 

[GR66]

I think this is the shell game we're going to end up trying to play, but I don't see our partner nations playing along. there is already a lot of friction within the Spanish and Italian Camps about how little "punching above our weight" matters to those who have brought most of the toys to the playground.

The number quoted previously upthread suggests that we're only upping our commitment from 800 troops to 1400 troops...and increase of 600. That's certainly not a Mech Battalion, Artillery Regiment (-), Engineer Regiment (-) and a Service Battalion.

By the numbers to me it sounds more like expanding our LAV Company to a full Battalion and a Brigade HQ (possibly plus some enablers) at most.

Of course will have to see what is actually announced but I don't have high hopes for any more serious a commitment than something like that.

 

[The Bread Guy]

In case anyone wants to read the Info-machine's official tea leaves (aka a joint declaration by CAN & LVA) - highlights mine ...

... Building on the significant eFP successes to date, and leveraging existing investments, processes and arrangements, Canada will:

1. Continue to provide leadership to NATO forces as a Framework Nation in Latvia.
2. Work with Latvia as the Host Nation, with NATO, and with Allies to develop a sustainable plan in the near term to ensure a more robust multi-domain deterrence posture in Latvia, which will implement NATO’s decision and to be able to surge a combat capable brigade. Canada will work with Allies to generate these forces and to stage them appropriately.
3. Lead and establish initially the elements of a forward brigade command and control element in Latvia.
4. Affiliate Canadian land and joint capabilities pledged to the NATO Response Force to deploy to Latvia as and when required.
5. As required, forward deploy or preposition personnel, equipment and ammunition that would support Allied forces, to allow for rapid and effective reinforcement.
6. In order to do this, Canada will work with Latvia, NATO and Allies to invest in infrastructure and training areas to support the augmentation.
7. Plan to acquire and deploy additional capabilities to provide critical support to operations such as anti-tank weapons systems, counter-uncrewed aircraft systems, air defence system, and ammunition and explosives.
8. In conjunction with Allies and NATO, establish a solid training, exercise, and rehearsal plan to demonstrate rapid reinforcement in Latvia by the multinational brigade’s worth of forces that Canada will generate in cooperation with Allies; integrating with Multinational Division – North; and ensuring coordination with multi-domain capabilities.
9. Lead a planning process with Allies to identify troops which will be able to surge to a combat capable brigade in Latvia as required by SACEUR.

Appreciative to Canada for the leadership and the long-term commitment to a multinational brigade in Latvia, Latvia will:

1. Provide Host Nation support to Canadian Armed Forces members, and armed forces members of other nations contributing troops and equipment to Latvia.
2. Develop and provide infrastructure to support the deployment of troops and support a brigade size unit. This could include infrastructure support such as: a new military base, accommodations, dining facilities, maintenance facilities, training areas to include live and dry training, and manoeuvre areas. New and expanded infrastructure will also ensure the ability to preposition equipment, ammunition and stocks, and to ensure all training and exercise needs.
3. Invest at least 2.5% GDP for defence to sustain the build-up of the Latvian Armed Forces as part of NATO’s defence of its Eastern Flank.

To my long-outta-the-CF eye, lotsa loopholes there to allow Canada to "commit" to a brigade without committing a brigade's worth of Canadian troops.

Archived link to the declaration and CAN govt news release here and here in case the previous link doesn't work for you.

 

[KevinB]

Put up or shut up time

 

[The Bread Guy]

Put up or shut up time View attachment 71701

From the report

 

[KevinB]

From the report
View attachment 71703

I didn’t want to shame you guys that bad.

 

[The Bread Guy]

I didn’t want to shame you guys that bad.

You're just the messenger, buddy

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Taking a page out of Papa's playbook.

handshakes and budget cuts.

 

[GR66]

In case anyone wants to read the Info-machine's official tea leaves (aka a joint declaration by CAN & LVA) - highlights mine ...

To my long-outta-the-CF eye, lotsa loopholes there to allow Canada to "commit" to a brigade without committing a brigade's worth of Canadian troops.

Archived link to the declaration and CAN govt news release here and here in case the previous link doesn't work for you.

Canada's participation in eFP Latvia....equipped for but not with a Brigade Group.