CAN Enhanced (Permanent?) Fwd Presence in Latvia

[Good2Golf]

Honestly Canada should probably approach the US and say, ‘hey, we can field a Bde in Latvia - if you give us equipment for an ABCT, and we will give 1 CMBG equipment to Ukraine.

It’s a big win, win, win, Ukraine gets equipment, Canada gets a credible Bde and we don’t need to send more troops.

 

[Skysix]

What if we started recruiting in Europe and elsewhere?

Stand up 4 CMBG as the Canadian Foreign Legion

I know of some US Army types including pilots that would do that for a landed immigrant card after 3 years even if deployed (plus 1 to unlearn the US way and learn ours ) Especially if we upgrade to the Blackhawk at some point.

 

[Good2Golf]

I know of some US Army types including pilots that would do that for a landed immigrant card after 3 years even if deployed (plus 1 to unlearn the US way and learn ours ) Especially if we upgrade to the Blackhawk at some point.

That Black Hawk ship sailed away on April 29, 1992…

 

[Skysix]

That Black Hawk ship sailed away on April 29, 1992…

Maybe so, but 30 years on the Bell 412-EP(SAR) we badge as a Griffon is getting long in the tooth and is limited in capacity. And upgrading to the UH1Y that the USMC is using is almost as expensive and less capable than the 'Hawk.

The S70i that Australia is replacing its NH90's (ahead of schedule as thair performance is far below spec and serviceability nowhere near promised) with is essentially a
UH60-M with RNAV capability (something US Blackhawks lack).

There is a reason that Maple Resolve seems to always have 4 or 5 HH-60M birds up from the lower 48 to assist...

 

[Good2Golf]

There is a reason that Maple Resolve seems to always have 4 or 5 HH-60M birds up from the lower 48 to assist...

…which is?

 

[YZT580]

Maybe thoughts and prayers?

can't send prayers. Religion is not allowed

 

[MSmith]

…which is?

The HH60Ms are properly equipped for medevac (litter system, oxygen, suction, patient monitors, etc) and have far mor advanced avionics... just a far more useful helicopter if something actually went wrong on the exercise and many casualties had to be evacuated is my understanding.

 

[Spencer100]

The HH60Ms are properly equipped for medevac (litter system, oxygen, suction, patient monitors, etc) and have far mor advanced avionics... just a far more useful helicopter if something actually went wrong on the exercise and many casualties had to be evacuated is my understanding.

In fairness would we even have the HH60M even if we had the Blachawk as the main helicopter of the CAF? It is the special MEDVAC unit. Not the CSAR unit but pretty specialized.

 

[MSmith]

In fairness would we even have the HH60M even if we had the Blachawk as the main helicopter of the CAF? It is the special MEDVAC unit. Not the CSAR unit but pretty specialized.

I don't think anyone was saying that Canada would realistically have the HH60M. I what Skysix was getting at is that our own helicopters cannot do the job of medevac well enough to risk not asking the Americans to send theirs up - which is somewhat embarrassing. When I was on MR21 the only Americans invited to my knowledge were the HH60Ms and crews, no manouvre elements. From the grapevine it sounded like their helicopters were a significant factor in whether or not training was OK'd for the day or not. We were already restricted from operating at night to prevent any accidents due to the limited medical personnel available, so that should give some insight into the risk tolerance vs capabilities discussion being had higher.

This is all to say - everyone knows that newer kit and better capabilities would be more gooder. Just one example of a gap.

 

[Skysix]

The HH60Ms are properly equipped for medevac (litter system, oxygen, suction, patient monitors, etc) and have far mor advanced avionics... just a far more useful helicopter if something actually went wrong on the exercise and many casualties had to be evacuated is my understanding.

Correct. And they can carry more per lift. Additionally the medics are Critical Care Paramedic level the same as ORNGE (68WF2 - also civilian FP-C (certified flight paramedics) and can do more than the ACP's in Canada (although not much more than the Alberta REMT-P's)

 

[Skysix]

When I was on MR21 the only Americans invited to my knowledge were the HH60Ms and crews . . . From the grapevine it sounded like their helicopters were a significant factor in whether or not training was OK'd for the day or not. We were already restricted from operating at night to prevent any accidents due to the limited medical personnel available

A while back STARS used to position a BK117 at CFB Wainwright during major exercises but I believe the cost of the standby, the limited capacity of a single injured soldier per lift, and the difficulty in providing quarters etc and enough staff for that coverage (in addition to STARS's normal commitments) led to looking at other solutions.

In a nice twist, I now as an Albertan RN/Medic civilian am doing the same mission under contract at Fort Hunter Liggett in central California. And yes, if we are not available the exercise gets slowed or stopped (live fire, jumps and drops, demo, water crossings)

 

[Good2Golf]

The HH60Ms are properly equipped for medevac (litter system, oxygen, suction, patient monitors, etc) and have far mor advanced avionics... just a far more useful helicopter if something actually went wrong on the exercise and many casualties had to be evacuated is my understanding.

Ah, you mean like having a semi-ER like capability and a medical emergency resuscitation team?

 

[KevinB]

There are a few good advantages to using a digital pattern. I'll leave it at that.

Those are mostly theoretical.
The problem with digital patterns that the designers (who often have a software validation for the design of their own construction…) is that high end EO/IO systems can actually recognize the pattern and outline a target from recognition very easily due to the straight lines and blocks.

Most of those same designers will gloss over down range user trials that also show that observers can often PID those patterns easier than blended patterns.

They will tell you all sorts of schlock that the human eye can’t do this or that, and point to their (key point their) computer models.

To say I think Canada got hosed and didn’t do enough of their own independent testing is a understatement (independence from the computer model that was designed by the same guy trying to foist CADPAT on you…).

If you spent some time thinking about what kit we actually have I think you'll realize that we have quite a lot of US kit, or US derivative equipment.

Probably not enough

 

[GR66]

I don't think anyone was saying that Canada would realistically have the HH60M. I what Skysix was getting at is that our own helicopters cannot do the job of medevac well enough to risk not asking the Americans to send theirs up - which is somewhat embarrassing. When I was on MR21 the only Americans invited to my knowledge were the HH60Ms and crews, no manouvre elements. From the grapevine it sounded like their helicopters were a significant factor in whether or not training was OK'd for the day or not. We were already restricted from operating at night to prevent any accidents due to the limited medical personnel available, so that should give some insight into the risk tolerance vs capabilities discussion being had higher.

This is all to say - everyone knows that newer kit and better capabilities would be more gooder. Just one example of a gap.

Can't we just use these guys?

 

[The Bread Guy]

Honestly Canada should probably approach the US and say, ‘hey, we can field a Bde in Latvia - if you give us equipment for an ABCT, and we will give 1 CMBG equipment to Ukraine ...

There's a LOT of defence procurement jokes that could be made right there re: Ukraine's possible response

 

[MarkOttawa]

Amongst other big NATO Europe reinforcements US is moving this unit:

FACT SHEET - U.S. Defense Contributions to Europe​

...an airborne infantry battalion from Italy to Latvia...​

FACT SHEET - U.S. Defense Contributions to Europe

The United States responded swiftly and effectively in close cooperation with our NATO Allies to the European security crisis brought about by Russia’s aggression against Ukraine.

www.defense.gov

What will our government add to Latvia force?

Mark
Ottawa

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Amongst other big NATO Europe reinforcements US is moving this unit:
What will our government add to Latvia force?

Headaches and empty promises

 

[Journeyman]

What will our government add to Latvia force?

In an endless stream of "... uh ... uh ..." the closest Trudeau got to any commitment was "Canada will fall in line."

 

[MarkOttawa]

At NATO presser just now formin Joly said Canada would be increasing strength in Latvia from 800 to 1,400 "troops". Love to know what Army units, equipment. Defmin Anand to give details. Maybe stationing RCAF Hornets? Couldn't count RCN personnel on ship in Baltic, could they?

Mark
Ottawa

 

[rmc_wannabe]

At NATO presser just now formin Joly said Canada would be increasing strength in Latvia from 800 to 1,400 "troops". Love to know what Army units, equipment. Defmin Anand to give details. Maybe stationing RCAF Hornets? Couldn't count RCN personnel on ship in Baltic, could they?

"Good morning, former Stewards... welcome to BASF Adazi....."