Government hints at boosting Canada’s military spending

I have long said that you could fund the CAF to 4 percent of GDP, but we would still lag behind in NATO and be much the same where we are.

It's never the money, it's politics. It's procedures. It's the pork-barreling in our defence spending that makes us a paper tiger in NATO.

My only hope in all of this for the CAF and the GoC, whatever the political stripe that may be, is that it will rouse them out of the "Peace Dividend" slumber. The world has been unstable since 1945. We have used geography, proximity, and association as a Defence Policy ever since. ICBMs don't care how close to the U.S. or how far from Russia/China we are.

Don't give us a dime more, but let us spend money on defence like it matters. The fact we follow the same rules for purchasing a fighter aircraft as we do for buying office furniture for a Service Canada office is disgraceful. Don't treat defense procurement as a stimulus package for Canadian Industry. There I said it.

We spend so much money, time, and effort trying to get that money to stay in Canada; be it by awarding contracts to companies with no capability to produce items without first "retooling" and"developing the production lines", or by hamstringing perfectly competent and competitive bidders by forcing the project to be made in St. Margaret de Poutain de Champignon, QC because the ruling government either lost the seat in the election, or won it with promises.

We spend so much money and staff hours jumping through TBS regulations that are great for other departments, but are terrible for defence procurement. Some items you have to sole source, because there are technologies and capabilities no one else makes. By doing the bid process, you get companies clamoring for a project they can't deliver on, but because they tick the bright boxes on the score sheet....

I truly and honestly belief we need to split from PSPC and legislate that its not beholden to TBS, only to the PBO/PCO. The guiding principles of this new Defence Procurement department should be "Off the shelf, from somewhere else" if there isn't an industry in Canada.

BOOTFORGEN has demonstrated how well we do when we are able to actually get what we need, instead of lining the pockets of a Canadian company that got lucky.

That, but with tanks, fighters, ships, weapons systems....

 

[daftandbarmy]

The discussion is not about maintainers. It is about transport drivers.

@dapaterson suggested that there was a shortage of drivers and suggested re-roling combat arms units to transport coys. My suggestion was to add a transport platoon to each combat arms unit. Not maintainers, which I agree need to be full timers, but drivers.

Likewise I was suggesting adding a Comms Section to each unit.

And if I had my druthers every unit would also have a Light Anti-Aircraft platoon that could double as a Heavy Weapons platoon.

Sure, because we have so much Infantry lying around we're out of room to store them all

 

[Kirkhill]

Sure, because we have so much Infantry lying around we're out of room to store them all

Look, you are short of everything. That doesn't stop us talking about more tanks, guns, subs, ships.....

 

[Brad Sallows]

You show up, you do your job to expectations, you get paid. That's the usual way things work.

You show up, you do your job to expectations, you get paid, and later you get a bonus is bizarre.

 

[FJAG]

The discussion is not about maintainers. It is about transport drivers.

Actually where I entered the discussions it was about CSS folks in A Ech - that includes some truckers but a lot of maintainers. In fact most combat units drive their own vehicles and don't use any or many MSE ops - but maintainers - man we love them folks.

@dapaterson suggested that there was a shortage of drivers and suggested re-roling combat arms units to transport coys. My suggestion was to add a transport platoon to each combat arms unit. Not maintainers, which I agree need to be full timers, but drivers.

See above. Despite the expertise that MSE ops bring to the trucking profession, combat arms don't need them because we have, in general, fairly specialized vehicles - those tanky thingies and the eight wheeled thingies. We generally don't need a MSE ops - we haul our own ammo and fuel and so on and have trucks for that.

I'll give you this though. In turning to a world where all that stuff comes on pallets, we no longer have very many vehicles in the inventory which can haul large numbers of personnel. We do have over a thousand MSVS MILCOTS of which close to 900 are designated as troop carrying versions. My understanding is that the CAF is not too fond of carrying troops loose in the back of such trucks but you'd have to ask @dapaterson about what the rules and regulations are on that.

Lastly, we don't need to reroll anyone. Frankly we do not have enough ARes combat arms or CS as it is. But I'm all in favour of expanding the size of ARes CSS units as well as expanding the HS PRL. You can make CSS bigger without cutting other folks. You just fund more positions then are currently funded. By all means, convert Svc Bns to transport battalions and maintenance battalions and logistics battalions and add in a special troops battalion (we could use one).

Likewise I was suggesting adding a Comms Section to each unit.

Once again comms is no stranger to combat arms and CS units. The comms and radio structures within ARes units, at the level they work at are easily managed by the units. If they cobble together a TF that needs rear links etc, they always have the sigs regiments to draw on.

And if I had my druthers every unit would also have a Light Anti-Aircraft platoon that could double as a Heavy Weapons platoon.

I'm sorry have we gone off ARes units? Why would an ARes unit - whose role is to provide augmentees to the RegF want an AD platoon? They already have troubles training the folks they need to have. Reform 1 AD Regt and 18 AD Regt and 58 AD Bty so as to augment 4 AD Regt (if they ever reform it)? - absolutely. They can provide light AD support to anyone - if the big boys ever figure out what we can afford.

 

[Maxman1]

I'm sorry have we gone off ARes units? Why would an ARes unit - whose role is to provide augmentees to the RegF want an AD platoon? They already have troubles training the folks they need to have. Reform 1 AD Regt and 18 AD Regt and 58 AD Bty so as to augment 4 AD Regt (if they ever reform it)? - absolutely. They can provide light AD support to anyone - if the big boys ever figure out what we can afford.

Would we be mounting the guns on building rooftops?

 

[ytz]

I was being facetious.

Nevertheless, money isn't at the forefront of what we should want to be reasons for joining the Res F.

Sure. But if it's not money, then it's things like a sense of adventure or fun. In that case, real life will intrude. People cut back on hobbies during hard times.

 

[Remius]

You show up, you do your job to expectations, you get paid. That's the usual way things work.

The CAF does not do the usual things though.

You show up, you do your job to expectations, you get paid, and later you get a bonus is bizarre.

The problem is that the CAF is one of those organizations that just can’t hire laterally from anywhere else. Yes other very specific trades or what not or maybe from some peer state militaries but overall we are predominately an organisation that builds its workforce from the bottom up.

So you need to try and find ways of keeping the talent you have. It takes a long time to replace them especially when we don’t have a lot of depth.

 

[Brad Sallows]

The problem is that the CAF is one of those organizations that just can’t hire laterally from anywhere else. Yes other very specific trades or what not or maybe from some peer state militaries but overall we are predominately an organisation that builds its workforce from the bottom up.

Bonuses for regulars? I meant the Res F exclusively. Looking at the Res F as an organization that "hires" is an incorrect model.

Many people start with the Res F "for the money", particularly late secondary and post-secondary students (whether academic or trades-oriented). It takes long enough to accumulate training that they become useful mammals at approximately the same time schooling ends and their lives have to adjust to a new pattern - work. Many depart.

A model that attracts and retains young people in the first phase (five to ten years) of their working life would be ideal. "Something different". "Something challenging". "Something purposeful". "Something complementary to work". "Something that teaches useful skills". An interest in the profession of arms. Sense of duty and civic responsibility.

The Res F competes with all other volunteer organizations, not with conventional enterprises.

Nevertheless, until the organization and purpose of the ARes is revised to fit the needs of the country - which means supporting the Reg F in peacetime, and executing and filling an actual mobilization plan in wartime - there isn't much point spending too much money trying to attract and hold more people right now. There's no point building the next generation of resistant-to-change reservists.

 

[Remius]

Bonuses for regulars? I meant the Res F exclusively. Looking at the Res F as an organization that "hires" is an incorrect model.

Except it does hire.

Many people start with the Res F "for the money", particularly late secondary and post-secondary students (whether academic or trades-oriented).

That’s an antiquated view. And a misunderstanding of the current generations and their motivations that we are targeting.

It takes long enough to accumulate training that they become useful mammals at approximately the same time schooling ends and their lives have to adjust to a new pattern - work. Many depart.

Correct. For various reasons. Some that could be mitigated with retention incentives.

A model that attracts and retains young people in the first phase (five to ten years) of their working life would be ideal. "Something different". "Something challenging". "Something purposeful". "Something complementary to work". "Something that teaches useful skills". An interest in the profession of arms. Sense of duty and civic responsibility.

I don’t disagree.

The Res F competes with all other volunteer organizations, not with conventional enterprises.

Disagree. It competes with entry level experiential employment. Not things like a soup kitchen or a scout leader job.

Nevertheless, until the organization and purpose of the ARes is revised to fit the needs of the country - which means supporting the Reg F in peacetime, and executing and filling an actual mobilization plan in wartime - there isn't much point spending too much money trying to attract and hold more people right now.

Yes. But we are at a breaking point CAF wide That if nothing is done the risk is permanent loss.

There's no point building the next generation of resistant-to-change reservists

Out of touch yet again. There has never been a better time for change as this generation is actually very open to change but the top keeps failing and disappointing . That goes to your first part about the CAF actually defining what it does.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Except it does hire.

That’s an antiquated view. And a misunderstanding of the current generations and their motivations that we are targeting.

Correct. For various reasons. Some that could be mitigated with retention incentives.

I don’t disagree.

Disagree. It competes with entry level experiential employment. Not things like a soup kitchen or a scout leader job.

Yes. But we are at a breaking point CAF wide That if nothing is done the risk is permanent loss.


Out of touch yet again. There has never been a better time for change as this generation is actually very open to change but the top keeps failing and disappointing . That goes to your first part about the CAF actually defining what it does.

If you ever feel the need to recharge your stores of patriotism and professional optimism, hang out with a PRes rifle company for awhile.

Those teenagers will keep you trying to catch up with them, in more ways than one

 

[Remius]

If you ever feel the need to recharge your stores of patriotism and professional optimism, hang out with a PRes rifle company for awhile.

Those teenagers will keep you trying to catch up with them, in more ways than one

Exactly. Money is not a the motivator people think it is these days for those types

 

[dapaterson]

Exactly. Money is not a the motivator people think it is these days for those types

Money is not necessarily a motivator, but can become a demotivator.

 

[Remius]

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/whats-britains-strategic-defence-review-2025-06-01/

What the Brits are looking at…

 

[FJAG]

The Review is here.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/683d89f181deb72cce2680a5/The_Strategic_Defence_Review_2025_-_Making_Britain_Safer_-_secure_at_home__strong_abroad.pdf

2 Pager here

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/683dbe63d23a62e5d32680de/The_Strategic_Defence_Review_2025_-_two-pager.pdf

 

[Kirkhill]

The CAF does not do the usual things though.

The problem is that the CAF is one of those organizations that just can’t hire laterally from anywhere else. Yes other very specific trades or what not or maybe from some peer state militaries but overall we are predominately an organisation that builds its workforce from the bottom up.

Cubs, Brownies, Boys Brigade, Scouts, Cadets, Volunteers, Territorials, Regulars, Reserves. - The pathway to the colours. Only the last two were paid. Only the Regulars were full time. And they were paid less than civilians. Of course they got good boots, warm clothes and three hots and a cot.

So you need to try and find ways of keeping the talent you have. It takes a long time to replace them especially when we don’t have a lot of depth.

 

[Brad Sallows]

That’s an antiquated view. And a misunderstanding of the current generations and their motivations that we are targeting.

There are survey findings that back that up (people asked to rank reasons they joined the Res F)?

Disagree. It competes with entry level experiential employment. Not things like a soup kitchen or a scout leader job.

Soft examples. How about volunteer firefighter or search-and-rescue?

Yes. But we are at a breaking point CAF wide That if nothing is done the risk is permanent loss.

We're at risk of permanently losing the Res F? Based on what evidence?

Out of touch yet again. There has never been a better time for change as this generation is actually very open to change but the top keeps failing and disappointing . That goes to your first part about the CAF actually defining what it does.

Find a generation that wasn't open to change while young and didn't think the old fogies at the top were failling and disappointing. You're describing people in general. LFRR started with optimism for change even among older members, although it didn't finish with it.

 

[Czech_pivo]

The Review is here.



2 Pager here

Continuous submarine production: up to 12 conventionally armed, nuclear-powered attack submarines through the AUKUS programme.

From the 2 pager:
Is that correct? It can't be, can it? I thought that their Nuke subs carried their nuclear deterrent missiles in them and that 1 was always at sea. Is that not the case?

 

[Haggis]

Correct. For various reasons. Some that could be mitigated with retention incentives.

You get a $6000 tax break for being a volunteer firefighter or search and rescue team member. You get a tax break on income earned while deployed in many cases. So, why not make Res F earnings tax exempt?

 

[PrairieFella]

You get a $6000 tax break for being a volunteer firefighter or search and rescue team member. You get a tax break on income earned while deployed in many cases. So, why not make Res F earning tax exempt?

There's a fat pay raise right there for the CAF generally, tax-free service.

 

[Kirkhill]

Today's dichotomy -

The Armouries as Army Institutions
The Armouries as Community Institutions.

And back to the discussion about The National Guard.

I see the Armouries as a muster point for the local community. A place where the government stores equipment suitable to managing emergencies. A place where people go to learn how to use that equipment effectively.

One form of emergency is repelling invaders. Consequently the citizens learn how to fight.
Another emergency is suppressing riots. Consequently citizens learn to assist the citizen constabulary (all constables are citizens)
Most emergencies do not involve violence.

Sending troops to garrison remote outposts at the ends of empire (Resolute and Goose Bay for example) may be an existential issue but it is not an emergency. It is a cost of doing business. Just like hiring a night watchman or a security guard. If you want those jobs done you are going to have to pay for them.

Sending troops to foreign lands to fight foreigners is not an emergency. It is not an existential issue. It is a discretionary cost that the government of the day perceives as having value, having utility. As with finding security guards for disagreeable locations you are going to have to pay for them. And given the greater risks involved you can expect to pay more for those services. Defrayed by the young and bold who seek excitement.

....

The National Guard fulfills the entire spectrum of responses. From the unpaid volunteer to those cashiered by the government for foreign service.

....

As I said, I see the Armouries as muster point for the community.

Now, the community can be asked to find a rifle company, or a gun battery, or a cavalry squadron. Fair request. They might even be asked to find an entire regiment.

That doesn't prevent the Armouries being a muster point for other tasks and roles.

Mewata used to house the Highlanders and the KOCR. It also housed, under separate command, the Comm Squad, a Field Ambulance and an MP platoon???

....

Get rid of the Army-centric notion of the Armouries and its denizens as a pipeline to the Army. We can start by getting rid of the word Reserves. The Total Force system has not worked for the Army, for the Federal Government, the Provinces or anybody else. Volunteers are not Reserves as the Army wants and needs them.

Volunteers can be a reserve force. They can be useful in some crises. But they are inefficient. They are cheap. You get what you pay for.

Having people available to fill in the blank files on a moment's notice is going to require training them and then paying them to wear a (virtual) pager.

....

In my view there is nothing contradictory in having, in one armoury a combat arms sub-unit, a comms element, a casualty element and a transport element. And perhaps an engineer/pioneer element. Or even an Air Defence element. All elements that are likely to be beneficial to the community surrounding the Armoury of beneficial to their neighbours.

I am also agnostic on the command structure. They could be under the command of a combat arms "regiment" if that is what it takes to assuage dignities. They could equally be under a "purple" command structure.

That structure, in my view, would attract civic minded volunteers. Some of them might even want to put themselves at the service of the Department of National Defence for foreign service.

....

There needs to be a dichotomy between Emergency Preparedness (including war as an Emergency) and National Defence.

Army-centric National Defence is not working for Canada.

We need an Army. We have that. It could be better.

But we also need something that brings us more of the advantages of the National Guard system.

And I can't see the Army being able to deliver that.

It needs to be a client and not the master.