All Things AB Separatism (split fm Liberal Minority Government 2025 - ???)

[Halifax Tar]

Sorry, but if they want to destroy my country, then I’m fine with stigmatizing separatists.

There’s legitimate grievances, which I mostly share. But I will stigmatize anyone who will use those grievances to destroy my imperfect country.

I don't think Alberta separatists want to destroy Canada, what they want is to change their provincial belonging. Either independent, or American.

The fact that the Canadian house of cards would collapse is just a consequence. I don't think its the goal.

 

[Brad Sallows]

You don't fight separatism and regionalism by demonizing the separatists.

Emotional outbursts are a symptom. The problem is the tendency of majorities to believe everyone else should be just like they are, and to treat everything they want as something to be imposed nationally. "Why do those people need that?" and "Everyone should have this".

Overall: "OK, we got what we want (a new transfer program, a regional development program, a permanent federal subsidy, a major infrastructure project); no more development (more taxes, demands on the public fisc that would benefit mostly someone else, major infrastructure projects across boundaries) wanted now."

 

[MilEME09]

I don't think Alberta separatists want to destroy Canada, what they want is to change their provincial belonging. Either independent, or American.

The fact that the Canadian house of cards would collapse is just a consequence. I don't think its the goal.

Part of the problem is much of that desire for change is also founded in misunderstanding of various government policies etc. Great example i keep encountering is people thinking quebec hydro revanue is somehow exempt from equalization. This misinformation evolved from the gripe AB has that Qc doesnt sell electricity to residents at market value which they argue artificially lowers their fiscal capacity.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Part of the problem is much of that desire for change is also founded in misunderstanding of various government policies etc. Great example i keep encountering is people thinking quebec hydro revanue is somehow exempt from equalization. This misinformation evolved from the gripe AB has that Qc doesnt sell electricity to residents at market value which they argue artificially lowers their fiscal capacity.

I don't believe in equalization flat out. I really don't care what metric is used.

 

[MilEME09]

New poll on separation, though the online presence would make you think its a lot more. When translated to a general number of voters this would be 533k votes for leaving if every eligible voter showed up.

Alberta Politics: UCP Support Rising, While Health Care and Separatism Drive Political Debate

Leger's latest poll on Alberta politics shows support for the United Conservative Party is rising, despite strong opposition to separatism.

leger360.com

 

[daftandbarmy]

There's a classic power move... try to control the judiciary

Alberta premier demands more say in federal judicial appointments

Alberta premier demands more say in federal judicial appointments | Watch News Videos Online

Watch Alberta premier demands more say in federal judicial appointments Video Online, on GlobalNews.ca

globalnews.ca

 

[childs56]

Part of the problem is much of that desire for change is also founded in misunderstanding of various government policies etc. Great example i keep encountering is people thinking quebec hydro revanue is somehow exempt from equalization. This misinformation evolved from the gripe AB has that Qc doesnt sell electricity to residents at market value which they argue artificially lowers their fiscal capacity.

How does it work for Quebec hydro then?
The program seems similar to a tax shelter, but I guess a easy way would be for Alberta to add all oil and gas production under a crown corporation, then taxation would be different then it is now.

 

[MilEME09]

How does it work for Quebec hydro then?
The program seems similar to a tax shelter, but I guess a easy way would be for Alberta to add all oil and gas production under a crown corporation, then taxation would be different then it is now.

Not unless AB was selling refined gas to consumers. Quebec hydro is close to break even without massive profits. Should they be charging full price? Maybe but thats their choice to give cheaper electricity to their residents which helps with cost of living

 

[childs56]

Not unless AB was selling refined gas to consumers. Quebec hydro is close to break even without massive profits. Should they be charging full price? Maybe but thats their choice to give cheaper electricity to their residents which helps with cost of living

Alberta does sell lots of refined product to consumers. They also sell Heavy crude that has been upgraded to sell to market.
The difference is one form of resource gets taxed heavily the other does not.
Do not forget the cheap electricity Quebec buys from Newfoundland and sells for a nice profit.

It really can be a decent discussion going forward on how a province chooses to not utilize their resources while accepting resource money from others.

 

[MilEME09]

It really can be a decent discussion going forward on how a province chooses to not utilize their resources while accepting resource money from others.

I wouldn't call it not utilizing when its them charging a different rate, they are still using it, just not profiting off the backs of citizens, which imo is how a crown corp should be operating any way

 

[childs56]

I wouldn't call it not utilizing when its them charging a different rate, they are still using it, just not profiting off the backs of citizens, which imo is how a crown corp should be operating any way

They have large large oil and gas reserves they are not developing.

They are "profiting" off the backs of others in the country by not charging a proper price for their services. I think the latest figures are $60billion in debt. With an aging infrastructure. Crown corps are good but when they are providing services they need (should) to be profitable to pay for their services. The only figure I can find is their Net profit for 2025 the first nine months was $2.830 billion, they invested over $5 billion in projects.
They are moving money around to remain under the guise and not pay resource fees.
BC needs a change in their process also. It is not just Quebec.

 

[MilEME09]

Let the coordinating info wars against us begin

AI-generated news channels spread election fraud and separatist narratives in Canada

Highly partisan AI-generated news reached millions before being removed by YouTube.

dfrlab.org

 

[childs56]

Let the coordinating info wars against us begin

AI-generated news channels spread election fraud and separatist narratives in Canada

Highly partisan AI-generated news reached millions before being removed by YouTube.

dfrlab.org

AI posting is getting down right criminal. Needs to be addressed sooner then latter.

 

[MilEME09]

Sounds like the UCP is planning on a vote on if the official party position will be separation

Braid: Is the UCP still a pro-Canada party? They might take a vote on it

At the top level of the UCP they're pondering whether to hold a vote on the party turning separatist

calgaryherald.com

 

[HavokFour]

Sounds like the UCP is planning on a vote on if the official party position will be separation

Braid: Is the UCP still a pro-Canada party? They might take a vote on it

At the top level of the UCP they're pondering whether to hold a vote on the party turning separatist

calgaryherald.com

This happens and the naming rule will for sure not survive a court challenge. Welcome back Progressive Conservatives.

 

[Remius]

Most Albertans would vote to stay in Canada, Angus Reid survey finds

Amid ongoing debate about provincial sovereignty, most Albertans would vote to stay in Canada, according to a new survey from the Angus Reid Institute.

www.ctvnews.ca

Latest Angus Reid poll on the issue.

 

[brihard]

This happens and the naming rule will for sure not survive a court challenge. Welcome back Progressive Conservatives.

Indeed. And while the provincial citizens’ initiative legislation can obligate a referendum question on an issue, it would not compel a provincial government to follow up on pursuing that result as a policy objective; the referendum is basically just a signal of voter sentiment. I.e., if a referendum happened in the fall, a majority at the time voted to separate, and the UCP government were to begin separation negotiations, a subsequent provincial government following a provincial election would not be obligated to continue using that. The next provincial election will be October 2027. Even if we imagine a secession referendum that results in a win for ‘yes’, assuming they don’t complete the process in a year, the provincial election would essentially be a poll on “are you REALLY sure you want to do this?” Secession would be THE election issue.

I think the odds of a referendum are fairly high- Smith put her thumb on the scales to ensure that. But I think the odds of a vote to secede are low.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Indeed. And while the provincial citizens’ initiative legislation can obligate a referendum question on an issue, it would not compel a provincial government to follow up on pursuing that result as a policy objective; the referendum is basically just a signal of voter sentiment. I.e., if a referendum happened in the fall, a majority at the time voted to separate, and the UCP government were to begin separation negotiations, a subsequent provincial government following a provincial election would not be obligated to continue using that. The next provincial election will be October 2027. Even if we imagine a secession referendum that results in a win for ‘yes’, assuming they don’t complete the process in a year, the provincial election would essentially be a poll on “are you REALLY sure you want to do this?” Secession would be THE election issue.

I think the odds of a referendum are fairly high- Smith put her thumb on the scales to ensure that. But I think the odds of a vote to secede are low.

My guess is they win even if the question doesn't go to referendum as it gives them leverage in discussions with Ottawa.

They learned alot from Quebec

 

[FSTO]

^^
I think the separatists need 90% plus support for their dream of independence to gain any traction in Ottawa.

 

[PrairieFella]

My guess is they win even if the question doesn't go to referendum as it gives them leverage in discussions with Ottawa.

They learned alot from Quebec

They learned how to devastate their economy to a degree that it still hasnt recovered? Lots of the business headquarters are in Calgary/Toronto and not Montreal anymore for a reason.