Replacing the Subs

[suffolkowner]

deleted

 

[KevinB]

Interesting read, applicable to Canada, on how Portugal was able to sail an AIP sub under Arctic waters.

How Portugal shaped Canada's new submarines and fine-tuned Arctic defence

Portugal is the first country in recent history to operate a conventional submarine under the Arctic ice. The Navy's adaptations for this mission are being studied by Canada, which will incorporate them into its new fleet. Arpão has expanded "tactical options" for underwater combat in the far...

www.euronews.com

So something that USN, UK, French and other nuke boats do for months at a time is all of a sudden something to celebrate a conventional boat under the edge of the ice for 4 days?


It took them a decade to plan and numerous other government entities helping.

Hmm.

Unsure of the hoopla here.

 

[brihard]

Damn, skillful arm twist by the government on this one. Hanwha has sweetened the pot with a commitment to armoured vehicle manufacturing in Canada if they get the sub contract.

South Korea sweetens submarine bid, will manufacture armoured vehicles in Canada if chosen

Under pressure to increase economic benefits to Canadians, South Korea’s Hanwha is committing to manufacturing armoured battle vehicles in Canada if it’s awarded the lucrative contract to build the Royal Canadian Navy’s next fleet of submarines.

www.ctvnews.ca

Now say ‘yes!’ and sign the bloody thing!

 

[suffolkowner]

Damn, skillful arm twist by the government on this one. Hanwha has sweetened the pot with a commitment to armoured vehicle manufacturing in Canada if they get the sub contract.

South Korea sweetens submarine bid, will manufacture armoured vehicles in Canada if chosen

Under pressure to increase economic benefits to Canadians, South Korea’s Hanwha is committing to manufacturing armoured battle vehicles in Canada if it’s awarded the lucrative contract to build the Royal Canadian Navy’s next fleet of submarines.

www.ctvnews.ca

Now say ‘yes!’ and sign the bloody thing!

SK wheeled howitzer and wheeled mlrs ?

 

[Czech_pivo]

SK wheeled howitzer and wheeled mlrs ?

I hope not.

 

[HavokFour]

Damn, skillful arm twist by the government on this one. Hanwha has sweetened the pot with a commitment to armoured vehicle manufacturing in Canada if they get the sub contract.

South Korea sweetens submarine bid, will manufacture armoured vehicles in Canada if chosen

Under pressure to increase economic benefits to Canadians, South Korea’s Hanwha is committing to manufacturing armoured battle vehicles in Canada if it’s awarded the lucrative contract to build the Royal Canadian Navy’s next fleet of submarines.

www.ctvnews.ca

Now say ‘yes!’ and sign the bloody thing!

According to G&M it could be more than just K9's. Still waiting to see what was said at the presser earlier this morning.

The company is expected to promise this venture would sustain tens of thousands of automotive sector jobs for Canadians while establishing a domestic production capability to supply non-commercial industrial vehicles, including military vehicles, in Canada and globally.

The vehicles could include Hanwha equipment including its K9 Thunder self-propelled Howitzer and K10 Ammunition Resupply Vehicle, its Redback Infantry Fighting Vehicle, its Chunmoo Multiple Launch Rocket System and uncrewed ground vehicles.

South Korean bidder to build military vehicles in Canada if it wins submarine contract

Hanhwa announced a joint venture with Canada’s Automotive Parts Manufacturers’ Association to build the promised submarines

www.theglobeandmail.com

Archive

 

[suffolkowner]

I hope not.

Why?

 

[Czech_pivo]

According to G&M it could be more than just K9's. Still waiting to see what was said at the presser earlier this morning.

South Korean bidder to build military vehicles in Canada if it wins submarine contract

Hanhwa announced a joint venture with Canada’s Automotive Parts Manufacturers’ Association to build the promised submarines

www.theglobeandmail.com

Archive

The possible ability to produce an artillery piece and a complete shell - all within Canada - now that would be something.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Why?

I'm in the 'tracked' is better for our arctic terrain camp.

 

[Maxman1]

According to G&M it could be more than just K9's. Still waiting to see what was said at the presser earlier this morning.

South Korean bidder to build military vehicles in Canada if it wins submarine contract

Hanhwa announced a joint venture with Canada’s Automotive Parts Manufacturers’ Association to build the promised submarines

www.theglobeandmail.com

Archive

I'm still not sold on the Redback over the CV90 (the Redback has no commonality with the K9/K10), and a HIMARS purchase is apparently already underway.

 

[suffolkowner]

I'm in the 'tracked' is better for our arctic terrain camp.

I thought that ship had 90 percent saoled

 

[Czech_pivo]

I thought that ship had 90 percent saoled

It has, but the large lady has yet to appear on stage and start singing.

 

[Underway]

Where y’all gonna find the people to crew all these?

Navy grew last year. Also not expecting the first subs until 2032 at the earliest.

Its the biggest challenge for sure.

Damn, skillful arm twist by the government on this one. Hanwha has sweetened the pot with a commitment to armoured vehicle manufacturing in Canada if they get the sub contract.

South Korea sweetens submarine bid, will manufacture armoured vehicles in Canada if chosen

Under pressure to increase economic benefits to Canadians, South Korea’s Hanwha is committing to manufacturing armoured battle vehicles in Canada if it’s awarded the lucrative contract to build the Royal Canadian Navy’s next fleet of submarines.

www.ctvnews.ca

Now say ‘yes!’ and sign the bloody thing!

Ugh.

This would be the worst option. Frankly if we pick another armoured vehicle we could get the same benefits. Keeping contracts separate is always the best option. Tying one good submarine to multiple "might be good or bad" other vehicles isn't the way to go.

Edit: On reread of the article it would be a factory to meet other international demand (Finland, Poland Estonia etc...). So there is no requirement for Canada to purchase said vehicles, however it would create a situation where it would place Korea in a very strong position for future bids on other equipment if they were already making some of that stuff here.

So not as bad as I was thinking originally.

 

[suffolkowner]

Canada’s Automotive Parts Manufacturers’ Association (APMA) and Hanwha Corporation announce landmark joint venture to establish a new Canadian entity that will produce military and industrial vehicle

Press Release + Long Noah Note

www.truenorthstrategicreview.ca

subs, tanks, IFVs, trucks oh my!

 

[suffolkowner]

Navy grew last year. Also not expecting the first subs until 2032 at the earliest.

Its the biggest challenge for sure.

near future need for HMCS Protecteur and HMCS Preserver + 400 ship crew + support?

by 2045ish
3x the submariners?
+ a couple hundred for the Rivers?

add another 500 crew?

2029
JSS/AOR 199x2=398
AOPS 65x6=390
SSK 59x4=236
HFX 255x12=3060
Total=4084

2045
JSS/AOR 199x2=398
AOPS 65x6=390
SSK 50x12=600
RCD 210x15=3150
Total=4538

further expansion

JSS/AOR 199x2=398
GLAAM 199x2=398
CDC 100x12=1200
Total=1996

 

[Czech_pivo]

Canada’s Automotive Parts Manufacturers’ Association (APMA) and Hanwha Corporation announce landmark joint venture to establish a new Canadian entity that will produce military and industrial vehicle

Press Release + Long Noah Note

www.truenorthstrategicreview.ca

subs, tanks, IFVs, trucks oh my!

The Tool and Die industry in Windsor (and in other parts of Canada as well I imagine) in being hit hard right now. Trump has tweaked some existing tariff to hit the industry really hard and its having a quick and negative hit. This sort of new industry would definitely help them going forward.

 

[Czech_pivo]

near future need for HMCS Protecteur and HMCS Preserver + 400 ship crew + support?

by 2045ish
3x the submariners?
+ a couple hundred for the Rivers?

add another 500 crew?

2029
JSS/AOR 199x2=398
AOPS 65x6=390
SSK 59x4=236
HFX 255x12=3060
Total=4084

2045
JSS/AOR 199x2=398
AOPS 65x6=390
SSK 50x12=600
RCD 210x15=3150
Total=4538

further expansion

JSS/AOR 199x2=398
GLAAM 199x2=398
CDC 100x12=1200
Total=1996

So from 2029 to 2045 the RCN needs to grow about 12% overall, or, to put it another way, less than 1% a year for 16yrs.

 

[suffolkowner]

So from 2029 to 2045 the RCN needs to grow about 12% overall, or, to put it another way, less than 1% a year for 16yrs.

Im sure it remarkably more difficult than that with various technical specialties plus the associated support personnel 2x,3x?
but seems manageable

 

[YZT580]

near future need for HMCS Protecteur and HMCS Preserver + 400 ship crew + support?

by 2045ish
3x the submariners?
+ a couple hundred for the Rivers?

add another 500 crew?

2029
JSS/AOR 199x2=398
AOPS 65x6=390
SSK 59x4=236
HFX 255x12=3060
Total=4084

2045
JSS/AOR 199x2=398
AOPS 65x6=390
SSK 50x12=600
RCD 210x15=3150
Total=4538

further expansion

JSS/AOR 199x2=398
GLAAM 199x2=398
CDC 100x12=1200
Total=1996

1996 to be hired over 2 decades from a population of 42 million with an unemployment rate of over 6%. Seems like a no-brainer. Start building those schools and buy more Kingston style ships

 

[suffolkowner]

1996 to be hired over 2 decades from a population of 42 million with an unemployment rate of over 6%. Seems like a no-brainer. Start building those schools and buy more Kingston style ships

Well as i said before you are probably looking at 2 to 3 times the on shore support staff so the off the book expansion runs to 6000 to 8000 more and just the on the books plans are another 3000 to 4000(?)