Indirect Fires Modernization Project - C3/M777 Replacement

[GR66]

IMHO, we are really missing the efficiencies that reserve service can bring to an arm like the artillery if we do not form hybrid regiments. There is zero reason that all the weapon systems that the artillery should have - from M777s, to SPs, to HIMARS, to loitering munitions, to GBAD, to STA - can’t be operated by properly configured hybrid units.

To borrow a term from my kid's Harry Potter books, the Regs don't want their units contaminated with "mudbloods".

 

[Kirkhill]

ROGUE update - the self-driving gun-carriage continues to develop

U.S. Marine Corps just tested a self-driving artillery platform

Overland AI has integrated its autonomous driving system onto the U.S. Marine Corps' Remotely Operated Ground Unit for Expeditionary Fires platform, demonstrating the ability to maneuver an unmanned ground vehicle through contested terrain without human intervention. The Seattle-based company...

defence-blog.com

 

[HavokFour]

English language news media in SK is picking up on our potential interest in K9's.

Not a whole lot of new information.

Canada is the latest country eyeing the K9. Lt. Gen. Michael Wright, commander of the Canadian Army, recently told local news agency Yonhap that Ottawa is in talks with the Korean military defense giant.

"The K9 howitzers, I know, is something that Hanwha has spoken about," said Wright. "The Redback Infantry Fighting Vehicle is another example." The interview came in the backdrop of Hanwha Aerospace being a contender to supply up to 98 systems under Ottawa's roughly $1 billion Indirect Fires Modernization program.

"The Canadian Army is in the midst of our largest modernization of equipment in over 25 years, and we're looking in accordance with our defense industrial strategy — what we can do to rapidly accelerate bringing new equipment into the Canadian Army," said Wright.

Canada eyes Hanwha K9 as Korean howitzer becomes NATO's Arctic gun of choice

The K9 Thunder self-propelled howitzer is becoming a fixture of Arctic defense, a track record that now gives manufacturer Hanwha Aerospace an edge in purchase talks with Canada as Ottawa overhauls its land-based artillery.

koreajoongangdaily.joins.com

 

[MilEME09]

English language news media in SK is picking up on our potential interest in K9's.

Not a whole lot of new information.

Canada eyes Hanwha K9 as Korean howitzer becomes NATO's Arctic gun of choice

The K9 Thunder self-propelled howitzer is becoming a fixture of Arctic defense, a track record that now gives manufacturer Hanwha Aerospace an edge in purchase talks with Canada as Ottawa overhauls its land-based artillery.

koreajoongangdaily.joins.com

Some more, SK offering to build K9s in canada if they win the sub deal. Which likely would trigger them winning IFM.

South Korea sweetens submarine bid, will manufacture armoured vehicles in Canada if chosen

Under pressure to increase economic benefits to Canadians, South Korea’s Hanwha is committing to manufacturing armoured battle vehicles in Canada if it’s awarded the lucrative contract to build the Royal Canadian Navy’s next fleet of submarines.

www.ctvnews.ca

 

[HavokFour]

Some more, SK offering to build K9s in canada if they win the sub deal. Which likely would trigger them winning IFM.

South Korea sweetens submarine bid, will manufacture armoured vehicles in Canada if chosen

Under pressure to increase economic benefits to Canadians, South Korea’s Hanwha is committing to manufacturing armoured battle vehicles in Canada if it’s awarded the lucrative contract to build the Royal Canadian Navy’s next fleet of submarines.

www.ctvnews.ca

G&M is saying it may go beyond K9's. We're already getting HIMARS so Chunmoo's can probably be ruled out , but Redbacks may be in play.

Post in thread 'Replacing the Subs'

Yesterday at 13:04

Damn, skillful arm twist by the government on this one. Hanwha has sweetened the pot with a commitment to armoured vehicle manufacturing in Canada if they get the sub contract.

South Korea sweetens submarine bid, will manufacture armoured vehicles in Canada if chosen

Under pressure to increase economic benefits to Canadians, South Korea’s Hanwha is committing to manufacturing armoured battle vehicles in Canada if it’s awarded the lucrative contract to build the Royal Canadian Navy’s next fleet of submarines.

www.ctvnews.ca

Now say ‘yes!’ and sign the bloody thing!

According to G&M it could be more than just K9's. Still waiting to see what was said at the presser earlier this morning.

The company is expected to promise this venture would sustain tens of thousands of automotive sector...

• HavokFour

• 

 

[Maxman1]

I still say the CV90 is superior to the Redback. Plus the Redback isn't based on the K9 or use the same engine, so it doesn't have the common fleet advantage going for it.

 

[MilEME09]

G&M is saying it may go beyond K9's. We're already getting HIMARS so Chunmoo's can probably be ruled out , but Redbacks may be in play.

Post in thread 'Replacing the Subs'

Yesterday at 13:04

Damn, skillful arm twist by the government on this one. Hanwha has sweetened the pot with a commitment to armoured vehicle manufacturing in Canada if they get the sub contract.

South Korea sweetens submarine bid, will manufacture armoured vehicles in Canada if chosen

Under pressure to increase economic benefits to Canadians, South Korea’s Hanwha is committing to manufacturing armoured battle vehicles in Canada if it’s awarded the lucrative contract to build the Royal Canadian Navy’s next fleet of submarines.

www.ctvnews.ca

Now say ‘yes!’ and sign the bloody thing!

According to G&M it could be more than just K9's. Still waiting to see what was said at the presser earlier this morning.

The company is expected to promise this venture would sustain tens of thousands of automotive sector...

• HavokFour

• 

Chunmoos rockets are apparently HIMARS compatible. So this might be an alternative ammo supply

 

[suffolkowner]

G&M is saying it may go beyond K9's. We're already getting HIMARS so Chunmoo's can probably be ruled out , but Redbacks may be in play.

Post in thread 'Replacing the Subs'

Yesterday at 13:04

Damn, skillful arm twist by the government on this one. Hanwha has sweetened the pot with a commitment to armoured vehicle manufacturing in Canada if they get the sub contract.

South Korea sweetens submarine bid, will manufacture armoured vehicles in Canada if chosen

Under pressure to increase economic benefits to Canadians, South Korea’s Hanwha is committing to manufacturing armoured battle vehicles in Canada if it’s awarded the lucrative contract to build the Royal Canadian Navy’s next fleet of submarines.

www.ctvnews.ca

Now say ‘yes!’ and sign the bloody thing!

According to G&M it could be more than just K9's. Still waiting to see what was said at the presser earlier this morning.

The company is expected to promise this venture would sustain tens of thousands of automotive sector...

• HavokFour

• 

https://www.dsca.mil/Press-Media/Major-Arms-Sales/Article-Display/Article/4320012/canada-m142-high-mobility-artillery-rocket-systems

HIMARS sale has approval but deal not announced yet

 

[suffolkowner]

Canada’s Automotive Parts Manufacturers’ Association (APMA) and Hanwha Corporation announce landmark joint venture to establish a new Canadian entity that will produce military and industrial vehicle

Press Release + Long Noah Note

www.truenorthstrategicreview.ca

Noah on Hanwha subs etc

 

[FJAG]

Boy Oh Boy. Talk about "inflection point."

We're looking at two key issues here - close support and deep fires. The SPs are clearly close support and the rockets deep fires.

Anyone who thinks that the close support systems - whether K9 or RCH on LAV 10x10 - will be used up North is smoking something pretty powerful. Neither system is readily transportable or capable of providing useful support up north. The current fetish for putting an SP on wheels is one I've argued against for a long time. Simply put, our SPs can realistically be expected to be used only in northern Europe; Latvia or whatever. K9 - being tracked - is a good fit for all terrain from the Baltics to Finland or Norway. Having a domestic manufacturing industry and the IP for that is worth its weight in gold. RCH will come with all the usual KNDS limitations but I think it has the current lead due to Canada's wheeled-SP-on-a-LAV fetish. But honestly, any SP will be better than what we've had for the last 20 years.

Chunmoos are a different issue. Our vision right now is for a regiment's worth of LRPS-L systems for 1 CAB for deep fires. There is, however, an underlying use-model for them as part of an anti-access/area denial role including in the North. For me, the launcher is a secondary matter. What matters is the current rocket set and the reasonably foreseeable rocket development in the future. Chunmoo looks perfectly capable of the job for 1 Div in say - Latvia. OTOH for A2/AD the nod has to be given to the developments underway for HIMARS rockets. How compatible HIMARS and Chunmoo will be with each other in the future is a crap shoot. I do wonder whether Canada couldn't play a part in rocket development if given the right jumpstart. My guess is that there is currently room for better, longer-range, more versatile (and maybe cheaper) rocket manufacture.

The APMA thing is a very interesting initiative.

Speaking of Noah. This from one of today's TSNR's posts:

Hey everyone,

With CANSEC right around the corner, the sheer volume of news, product teasers, and industry announcements is already starting to ramp up, and I want True North Strategic Review to be right in the middle of it.

If you’ve been reading TNSR for a while, you likely know the drill. Normally, I keep a pretty tight grip on what makes it onto the site as per my own editorial guidelines. I'm fairly restrictive, tightly controlled, and harsh outside of pressers to make sure we’re only focusing on the most critical updates.

But it’s CANSEC season, and for the biggest defence show of the year, I want to change things up. For the next month, I want to turn TNSR into an open field. We want to pack in as much hype, news, and talk as humanly possible before we all hit the floor in Ottawa.

So, here is the deal: For the next month only, TNSR is allowing promotional articles related to CANSEC to be published on our platform at absolutely no cost. A fair and open playing field for everyone.

Can't pay the magazines? Worried about getting lost in the sea? An SME going to CANSEC for the first time? Everyone has TNSR available to get their material out there. Go wild. Have some fun, lord knows I won't judge you for being a bit silly or dramatic.

I want to drop the usual gatekeeping and give you a space to spotlight exactly what you’re bringing to the table this year. The only catch is that the content still needs to follow our standard Editorial Guidelines. It has to be readable, relevant, and actually CANSEC related in some fashion. But otherwise? The floor is yours.

Take advantage of the TNSR mailing list. Whether you have full promotional articles, quick press releases, or vague, slightly menacing teasers of a new platform, hell even videos. Whatever you got, send it my way. Let's build some real momentum for this year's show.

Exhibitors looking to engage with TNSR at CANSEC proper can also email us to coordinate coverage oportunities and scheduling. I mean, im gonna be just messing around taking pics anyways. So like, come hang out with yo boy.

 

[KevinB]

G&M is saying it may go beyond K9's. We're already getting HIMARS so Chunmoo's can probably be ruled out , but Redbacks may be in play.

Post in thread 'Replacing the Subs'

Yesterday at 13:04

Damn, skillful arm twist by the government on this one. Hanwha has sweetened the pot with a commitment to armoured vehicle manufacturing in Canada if they get the sub contract.

South Korea sweetens submarine bid, will manufacture armoured vehicles in Canada if chosen

Under pressure to increase economic benefits to Canadians, South Korea’s Hanwha is committing to manufacturing armoured battle vehicles in Canada if it’s awarded the lucrative contract to build the Royal Canadian Navy’s next fleet of submarines.

www.ctvnews.ca

Now say ‘yes!’ and sign the bloody thing!

According to G&M it could be more than just K9's. Still waiting to see what was said at the presser earlier this morning.

The company is expected to promise this venture would sustain tens of thousands of automotive sector...

• HavokFour

• 

K-2 Black Panther tanks…

I am really hopeful that Canada does go K-9, as I think tracks have it all over wheels in that sort of weight for vehicles.

 

[HavokFour]

K-2 Black Panther tanks…

I am really hopeful that Canada does go K-9, as I think tracks have it all over wheels in that sort of weight for vehicles.

Different company. K9, Redback, and Chunmoo are all made by Hanwha Aerospace.

Wouldn't be against it however, it would just take a whole lot more deal making and internal negotiation in SK on their side of things.

 

[GR66]

Chunmoos are a different issue. Our vision right now is for a regiment's worth of LRPS-L systems for 1 CAB for deep fires. There is, however, an underlying use-model for them as part of an anti-access/area denial role including in the North. For me, the launcher is a secondary matter. What matters is the current rocket set and the reasonably foreseeable rocket development in the future. Chunmoo looks perfectly capable of the job for 1 Div in say - Latvia. OTOH for A2/AD the nod has to be given to the developments underway for HIMARS rockets. How compatible HIMARS and Chunmoo will be with each other in the future is a crap shoot. I do wonder whether Canada couldn't play a part in rocket development if given the right jumpstart. My guess is that there is currently room for better, longer-range, more versatile (and maybe cheaper) rocket manufacture.

The standard K239 Chunmoo is significantly larger than HIMARS having dual launch pods and is not transportable by C-130 which I think is a significant negative for an expeditionary Army like ours...and for the Arctic/Coastal defence role in particular.

However, according to Wikipedia they displayed a single pod version (similar to HIMARS) developed for their Marine Corps that is C-130 transportable:

In October 2025 at ADEX 2025 in Seoul, Hanwha Aerospace unveiled the High-Performance Multiple Rocket Launcher (HPMRL). Developed for Marine Corps usage as a more mobile launcher than the K239 Chunmoo, the HPMRL prototype weighs 19 tons and is 8.5 meters long, 2.6 meters wide, and 3.2 meters high. Its smaller size means that HPMRL only carry a single ammunition pod of the type used by Chunmoo. However, HPMRL is capable of being transported by C-130 aircraft without disassembly and can fire from the deck of a moving ship in Sea State 5. With initial development of HPMRL as an internal Hanwha program being complete, full-scale development in cooperation with DAPA is expected to start in 2030

While I think the PrSM for HIMARS would be a logical choice for Canada, SK is also developing precision missiles for Chunmoo:

On 27 April 2022, South Korean Defense Acquisition Program Administration announced a plan to develop a vehicle-mounted tactical surface-to-surface guided weapon (Ure-2). The purpose of this development project is to improve the existing Ure-1 to increase the range from 180 kilometers (110 mi) to 290 kilometers (180 mi) and integrate tactical ballistic missile systems into various types of Transporter Erector Launcher (TEL) such as the K239 Chunmoo. The development project is scheduled to begin in 2023 and plans to complete the development with a total budget of 1.56 trillion won (US$1.232 billion) by 2034.

I'm a huge proponent of Canada moving heavily into munitions production - both for ourselves and as a geographically safe production location for our allies. Possibility of joint missile production for the Chunmoo platform?

 

[GLP4X]

I'm a huge proponent of Canada moving heavily into munitions production - both for ourselves and as a geographically safe production location for our allies. Possibility of joint missile production for the Chunmoo platform?

MOU Between Hanwha Ocean, LIG D&A, and Magellan.

"At the center of the partnership is the integration of LIG D&A’s advanced weapon capabilities with Magellan Aerospace’s precision manufacturing expertise in Canada. (LIG history here, mentions Tiger Shark Torpedo and SLCM) The collaboration is aimed at enabling in-country capacity for the assembly and production of key submarine weapon systems."

"LIG D&A and Magellan are exploring a phased approach to industrial cooperation in Canada, including the assembly and production of munitions and unmanned systems, followed by the expansion of local sourcing and component manufacturing to support in-country maintenance, repair, and overhaul (MRO) requirements. Over time, this cooperation is expected to extend to the export of assembled systems to third markets. In parallel, the parties are reviewing collaboration on propulsion systems for 70mm guided rockets, with potential expansion into broader solid rocket motor (SRM) applications—including 130mm and 140mm systems—as part of a longer-term effort to diversify and strengthen Canada’s defence supply chain."

Torpedoes, with a possibility of CRV-7 revival, Chunmoo munitions, and SLCM.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

For those wondering about compatibility between Chunmoo and HiMARS here is the AI answer:

No, Chunmoo rockets are not compatible with HIMARS.

The two systems utilize fundamentally different hardware architectures and munition standards:

• Launcher Design: The K239 Chunmoo is an 8x8 wheeled vehicle carrying two interchangeable launch pods, capable of firing 131mm, 239mm, and 600mm tactical ballistic missiles (CTM-290). In contrast, the M142 HIMARS is a 6x6 truck carrying a single pod, designed exclusively for 227mm Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System (GMLRS) munitions or the 610mm ATACMS missile.
• Munition Incompatibility: Chunmoo rockets (e.g., 239mm CGR-080) and missiles (CTM-290) are physically and electronically incompatible with HIMARS’ GMLRS or ATACMS launchers. The firing mechanisms, guidance interfaces, and pod dimensions do not align between the two platforms.
• Operational Use: While nations like Estonia and Poland operate both systems to diversify supply chains and combine firepower (HIMARS for precision NATO-standard strikes and Chunmoo for higher-volume or extended-range deep strikes), they are maintained as separate, non-interchangeable asset classes within the same military inventory.

• 
  

 

[Kirkhill]

Drones for the 50-200 km range band. "Mid-Strike"
The gap between FPVs and Deep Strike cruise and ballistic missiles.
Complementary to the HIMARS family
PrSM would be Deep Strike.

Norway and Ukraine Launch Joint Production of Thousands of Mid-Strike Drones

A joint Ukrainian–Norwegian company in Norway will produce several thousand mid-strike drones.According to the Ministry of Defence of Ukraine, all the drones will be supplied to the Ukrainian military.The project […]

militarnyi.com

Ukraine to Produce Thousands of Mid-Strike Drones in Norway Under New Defense Deal

Ukraine and Norway launch joint UAV production, with thousands of mid-strike drones to be manufactured in Norway and supplied to Ukraine's forces.

united24media.com

 

[FJAG]

@dapaterson

Just surfing Facebook and in the 3 RCHA thread there is a letter shown which is purportedly from the CDS to the President and CEO of Parks Canada dated 19 Nov 2025 advising him that the CAF would not be renewing its MOU (in its current form) for Op Palaci Avcon support when the current one expires on 17 Nov 2027. It cites resources demands on the CAF as the reason.

To your knowledge, is this a fact?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Just saw that as well.

 

[dapaterson]

First I have heard of that.

 

[KevinB]

@dapaterson

Just surfing Facebook and in the 3 RCHA thread there is a letter shown which is purportedly from the CDS to the President and CEO of Parks Canada dated 19 Nov 2025 advising him that the CAF would not be renewing its MOU (in its current form) for Op Palaci Avcon support when the current one expires on 17 Nov 2027. It cites resources demands on the CAF as the reason.

To your knowledge, is this a fact?

I guess having working guns is an issue...