2007 CSOR course to be Navy/Air Force?

[ProPatria05]

Word on the street (right down the chain of command) is that the 2007 CSOR course is to be filled primarily with applicants from the Navy and Air Force, with a FEW exceptions for certain specialist positions.

I had already read a directive from the CLS dated sometime in September (only saw a hard copy, so can't provide any link) indicating that his intent was to restrict the outflow from the Army to CSOR, and that the CLS would have the final approval on all applications ie. whether or not he would "let them go". It goes on to say that his intent, more or less, was that anyone in a High Readiness unit, or any unit entering High Readiness in the near future, would not be "permitted" to cross over.

This new Navy/Air Force only (or mostly) policy seems to go one step further. Anyone else in green hearing this, or being told that their apps are in vain?

 

[rampage800]

Murph

I've heard alot of the same stuff,(not a strictly AF/Navy/Specialist course though) mainly because the Army guys just are having trouble getting out of their own units due to the Op Tempo. I also have heard that CSOR wants a very diversified group of soldiers, more skills for them to draw from then so maybe the AF/ Navy thing isn't so bad for a full course, there may be a steeper learning curve but thats just speculation on my part, I'm sure the instructors they have down there are nothing but the best and will help with the transition to "green/black" stuff.  Wow, thats quite the run on sentence I got going on there, anyhow my 2 cents.

 

[Sf2]

CSOR doesn't do any black ops....just green.  For clarity's sake......

 

[rocco]

As a junior-NCO, and an army reservist I'm used to micro-managing admin, and maybe not having the the same support structure that regular force guys are privledged to have. On that note, myself and another fellow MCpl have been told the same thing in regards to our applications. That is, we've been told nothing. Only that we'd hear ye/ne by early December, then early January, now no earlier than February sometime. I'm not going to speculate what that means, just my experience.

 

[Armymedic]

rocco,
be patient. Before that last course, guys were getting told to be in Pet on Sun, the Friday morning prior.

I am sure it can't be the same this time, but that might be the way it goes.

 

[Weinie]

    For clarity's sake:

CSOR can be employed in support of SOF, conventional forces, or in discrete ops. To say they do will not/do not do black ops is incorrect.

 

[Sf2]

This isn't hollywood.

Contrary to the movies, Black ops doesn't mean secret, discrete, or clandestine ops.  In a Canadian context, Black ops implies an entirely different task, of which CSOR is not mandated.  That's about as far as I'll go wrt that topic.

 

[Weinie]

  You're right, it's not Hollywood, and you shouldn't go any further on this topic.

 

[Combat Sailor]

My SM had spoken with the SM in Pet, and yes there is a push to get more Navy and Air in the regiment, but the course is not being loaded for just those two elements. My army friends that have applied have been told that their files are being held until they figure out who is going where. Most likely will be determined when the January board sits. It seems as though those who are due to go on a tour are being held back, but no definite word has come down. WRT the bigger learning curve... from the SOF members that I have spoken to, the curve is not that bad in the sense that yes the combat arms guys have a lot of valuable experience to bring to the table, but the training is not solely combat arms but special ops, therefore some old habits will have to be overcome. The non-combat arms guys have the benefit of not having to break old habits, as they won't have any habits in the first place. Bottom line the course will be a challenge for everyone, and the goal is that everyone comes out on the same level as CSOR members. Good luck to everyone trying.

Cheers

 

[KevinB]

FWIW -- Black Role: Doorkicker HRT stuff,  Black Ops: being covert/deniable.  I think the intial poster mistyped what he meant...

 

[Just a Guy]

Very simply in CANSOF lingo: Black refers to Domestic CT / HR work, Green infers either SF or SOF Ops.

Just a guy

 

[Weinie]

  Where did you dream that up?

 

[Just a Guy]

Dream it up perhaps or  just maybe you could read it in the CANSOFCOM initial Concept of Ops documentation....  what do you think.... sound a reasonable place to start ??

Here's the thing, it's great in this forum to be critical of an idea, but I would always suggest to pause two three, check that you're not making yourself look slightly foolish, then think about sending....  It's always to critize a person and not the idea...of course it's slightly intellectually hollow.

Just a guy

 

[Weinie]

  Post the doc , or the relevant section.

 

[Armymedic]

   Post the doc , or the relevant section.

Now there is a call out if I have ever seen one.

FWIW -- Black Role: Doorkicker HRT stuff,  Black Ops: being covert/deniable.  I think the intial poster mistyped what he meant...

Very simply in CANSOF lingo: Black refers to Domestic CT / HR work, Green infers either SF or SOF Ops.

Just a guy

Wow, this discussion is getting to be quite Tom Clancy-ish. Black ops, Black roles, Green ops... is that more decided by the clothes they wear or by the level of national interest in the operation, or perhaps where they operate....

Would a hostage rescue of a group high ranking politicians being held in the woods of northern BC where the assaulters from JTF doing the raid with operators from CSOR providing a cordon/securing force, all wearing green uniforms be a black op or a green op? Is it in a black role or would that be in a green role?

Would a similar secret hostage rescue in Afghanistan be called a Tan op?

For members of this website not privy to the inner workings of the CANSOF units, this dicussion is just a bunch of hot air, and probably way out of the defined arcs. How about we get back on topic...

When does the next CSOR selection/training course start? Is the Army letting people go on the course?

 

[Rhibwolf]

I agree with St Mike.... and ask the further question, has anyone been contacted with course loading messages or joining instructions?

 

[Just a Guy]

Course loading messages have not yet been cut, but the course is scheduled to start in early March.  There will be both Airforce and Navy pers loaded, the Army has yet to approve any pers to attend.

As an aside the discussion of colour of uniforms is irrelevant, as is the issue of Black / Green (as pointed out by St Mike) increasingly there is the realization that false distinction between black / green is a poor descriptor (hence the debate here) and provides little of any use in understanding of what is actually intended. The New Zealanders have adopted the melange of "brown" ops recognized the convergence, although I'm not sure that's the colour you get when you mix the two.......

As for the call out I will get an unclas version which was distributed to all ECSs as well as CEFCOM / CANADACOM et al

Just a Guy

 

[rampage800]

The word from the West is no Army guys going till at least Oct 07 and seeing how the crse is starting in Apr you can probably do the math. Anyhow haven't got anything official to tie it to but I know thats what the guys are hearing out there. Anyhow my 2 cents.

 

[airiedd]

Well the crse has started, or atleast some of the AF folks have gotten on flights!  I think (just me talking here) that some of the 'hard' air force (read: air craft repair) trades are going to have a hard time getting out of thier Squadrons to join CSOR.  With the numbers of releases, retirees, and re-musters going on we will be lucky to find enough people to staff the C-17, never mind the Chinook if and when it arrives.

 

[Weinie]

  Course started this morning. Good luck to all.