2022 CPC Leadership Discussion: Et tu Redeux

[dimsum]

Actually write him and he will send you a detailed description.

Regarding @Remius 's last point about how the CPC plans on implementing their policies, that is exactly what I would expect any party to have front and centre.

Voters (or potential voters) shouldn't need to ask for that info. If the response to "how do you expect to do this" is "write me and I'll tell you", then why don't they just tell them?

 

[ArmyRick]

Regarding @Remius 's last point about how the CPC plans on implementing their policies, that is exactly what I would expect any party to have front and centre.

Voters (or potential voters) shouldn't need to ask for that info. If the response to "how do you expect to do this" is "write me and I'll tell you", then why don't they just tell them?

Or you can go listen to him speak (which you probably won't). So do tell me how is general goals outlines are any different than say NDP or BQ?

On the other hand, Trudeau doesn't highlight or give detailed plans of any of his policies or objectives. Its make campaign promises, get elected and then do a bunch of different shit. Hell, he loves to spend a wad of cash on some new BS programs when his popularity dips or when he is front and center of another scandal (which is quite often).

Tell me, @dimsum WHO you think right now is the most fit to run this country. If I hear "no one is fit..." or some cheap cop out, I will assume your fine with status quo Trudeau running the ground into the country.

I would rather an 80% solution NOW than a 100% solution never.

 

[Remius]

Or you can go listen to him speak (which you probably won't). So do tell me how is general goals outlines are any different than say NDP or BQ?

what if those are not choices for some?

On the other hand, Trudeau doesn't highlight or give detailed plans of any of his policies or objectives. Its make campaign promises, get elected and then do a bunch of different shit. Hell, he loves to spend a wad of cash on some new BS programs when his popularity dips or when he is front and center of another scandal (which is quite often).

Tell me, @dimsum WHO you think right now is the most fit to run this country. If I hear "no one is fit..." or some cheap cop out, I will assume your fine with status quo Trudeau running the ground into the country.

You make assumptions based on your own bias and beliefs. None of the above is still a valid position (and it seems that 50% of Canadians feel that way).

You don’t get to define what that means or what people are fine with.

I would rather an 80% solution NOW than a 100% solution never.

And that is your choice. But to be honest I don’t even see the 80% solution so far.

 

[ArmyRick]

what if those are not choices for some?

You make assumptions based on your own bias and beliefs. None of the above is still a valid position (and it seems that 50% of Canadians feel that way).

You don’t get to define what that means or what people are fine with.

And that is your choice. But to be honest I don’t even see the 80% solution so far.

So @Remius , WHO today, here and now is the party that is most fit to lead?

 

[ArmyRick]

what if those are not choices for some?

You make assumptions based on your own bias and beliefs. None of the above is still a valid position (and it seems that 50% of Canadians feel that way).

You don’t get to define what that means or what people are fine with.

And that is your choice. But to be honest I don’t even see the 80% solution so far.

Biases? Not really. I turn on a political party faster than you can flip a pancake if they let us down.

BQ? Not an option.
NDP? Have voted in the past, not an option without a leadership change and stop trying to out liberal the liberals
Green? Have voted in the past, no way with Liz May at the helm and frankly I think they have run their course.
PPC? No. Max, give it up.
CPC? Best economic, legal, development, drug policies/proposals I can see right now
LPC? Not without a leadership change and a serious re-think on integrity

 

[Remius]

So @Remius , WHO today, here and now is the party that is most fit to lead?

I have no clue at this point. I’m one of the 50%. I don’t think any of them are particularly inspiring. I want to vote for something not against something. I don’t like the current crew and didn’t like the last crew. For me campaigns matter and I’ll see what’s on the table when that comes.

Sincerely hoping that the CIC runs candidates. I would park my vote there.

How I vote though is for me. Not you.

 

[IKnowNothing]

So @Remius , WHO today, here and now is the party that is most fit to lead?

If I may- the title of this thread (2022) CPC Leadership Discussion. Not "Which Party Would you Vote For/ Should Govern the Country"

To me, given the fact the 2022 leadership race is now long done, the logical direction of discussion is commentary/critique/analysis etc. on the actions and direction of the CPC and it's leader between people that have a strong interest in such things.

The fact that for months now, without fail, any such discussion is inevitably dragged down to a scree of "there's no better option among party leaders therefore any criticism is biased and out of touch" is kind of tiring.

 

[Remius]

Biases? Not really. I turn on a political party faster than you can flip a pancake if they let us down.

BQ? Not an option.
NDP? Have voted in the past, not an option without a leadership change and stop trying to out liberal the liberals
Green? Have voted in the past, no way with Liz May at the helm and frankly I think they have run their course.
PPC? No. Max, give it up.
CPC? Best economic, legal, development, drug policies/proposals I can see right now
LPC? Not without a leadership change and a serious re-think on integrity

Your biases towards anyone that disagrees or presents an opposing view is what meant. It’s not the first time. You frame them in that light. You did it to Haggis and Dimsum and myself and others in the past.

You assume that anyone who might not like pp must be an LPC supporter or Trudeau fan. Or that voting anything but pp is a question of loyalty to country.

People have a myriad of reasons why and for who they vote. That doesn’t make their vote any less valid than yours or your reasons to vote one way or another.

 

[Quirky]

When is the next Federal Election, 2024? I see no rush to gain support now and release a platform that will likely need to be changed based on how much further this Country goes down the toilet under the current leadership. The LPC are doing a great job of self-destruction, the CPC just need to wait things out and attack at the right moment.

 

[ArmyRick]

Your biases towards anyone that disagrees or presents an opposing view is what meant. It’s not the first time. You frame them in that light. You did it to Haggis and Dimsum and myself and others in the past.

You assume that anyone who might not like pp must be an LPC supporter or Trudeau fan. Or that voting anything but pp is a question of loyalty to country.

People have a myriad of reasons why and for who they vote. That doesn’t make their vote any less valid than yours or your reasons to vote one way or another.

Yup. I call you guys on your decisions. Vote for hell who you want. Its your right.

I think you don't like that I put uncomfortable questions and thoughts to you.

And of course, I find it interesting that fed govt employees have no issue with status quo.

 

[RangerRay]

Demanding that people choose between Tweedle-Dum and Tweedle-Dee, and telling someone that they must be for Tweedle-Dum because they refuse to choose is asinine and immature.

If you’re the leader of the opposition against an incompetent and corrupt government that people are tired of, but can’t make any headway against it, it’s time you start looking at your own messaging to see what’s turning off voters. Saying “If you don’t like X, you must vote Y. And if you don’t, means you like X” is not how one convinces gettable voters.

 

[ArmyRick]

If I may- the title of this thread (2022) CPC Leadership Discussion. Not "Which Party Would you Vote For/ Should Govern the Country"

To me, given the fact the 2022 leadership race is now long done, the logical direction of discussion is commentary/critique/analysis etc. on the actions and direction of the CPC and it's leader between people that have a strong interest in such things.

The fact that for months now, without fail, any such discussion is inevitably dragged down to a scree of "there's no better option among party leaders therefore any criticism is biased and out of touch" is kind of tiring.

Lemme be clear, PP is hands down the best option for this country right now. I STATE time and again, he is not perfect.

@Quirky have a valid point. elections not until 2024 unless some miracle happens and PP has presented outlines and alternatives to many, many problems plaguing most everyday Canadians. Whats gonna be the pressing issue in 2024? Who knows.

Look at the issues of here and now, alot of them were not on the radar in 2021

 

[ArmyRick]

Demanding that people choose between Tweedle-Dum and Tweedle-Dee, and telling someone that they must be for Tweedle-Dum because they refuse to choose is asinine and immature.

If you’re the leader of the opposition against an incompetent and corrupt government that people are tired of, but can’t make any headway against it, it’s time you start looking at your own messaging to see what’s turning off voters. Saying “If you don’t like X, you must vote Y. And if you don’t, means you like X” is not how one convinces gettable voters.

Looks to me like he is making headway. Cling to the polls all you want. They aren't always right. Hell in 2015, they initially didn't see Trudeau wining at all.

 

[ArmyRick]

Demanding that people choose between Tweedle-Dum and Tweedle-Dee, and telling someone that they must be for Tweedle-Dum because they refuse to choose is asinine and immature.

If you’re the leader of the opposition against an incompetent and corrupt government that people are tired of, but can’t make any headway against it, it’s time you start looking at your own messaging to see what’s turning off voters. Saying “If you don’t like X, you must vote Y. And if you don’t, means you like X” is not how one convinces gettable voters.

I see people running down PP and JT, so I ask who would you vote for? Of course no answer. I am assuming they are very comfortable with status quo. and don't want to publicly say so.

 

[ArmyRick]

If you really want to get where I am coming from, its not accepting the BS low standard of governing that is tolerated by many Canadians that sees many people struggling very badly to make ends meet, a CAF being depleted to no end, a government with zero accountability and endless government spending with no foreseeable balancing of the budget.

I see some absolute lies and total stereotypes being put forth about PP and the Conservatives (angry far right people? Give me a break).
I see people making stupid assumptions about climate and the environment (I am no expert but I know a F of alot more than some of the ignorance I have seen here).

If I were to compare PP to O'Toole and Scheer, I would take PP anyday. I agree with about 80-90% of what he says and promotes.

 

[RangerRay]

The CPC’s vote share in by-elections has gone down since PP became leader. Opposition parties usually do better in by-elections against unpopular governments.

Polling has consistently shown the CPC, at best, slightly ahead of the most incompetent, imbecilic governments in history. As recent history has shown, slight leads in popular vote are not enough for the CPC to get elected.

Show me where PP is making headway other than anecdotal “look at the crowds”. That’s weak sauce in light of more empirical evidence.

 

[IKnowNothing]

If you really want to get where I am coming from, its not accepting the BS low standard of governing

This is ironic, because your primary contribution to this thread is haranguing people that want more/better/different to accept the low low standard of "but he's better than Trudeau!"

 

[Haggis]

The next election has to be on or before October 20, 2025, roughly 28 months from now. I believe Trudeau will run out the clock, unless something dramatic happens to bolster his chances to secure a majority, at which point he will call a snap election.

I made my thoughts on PP known a few posts up. I can safely say I like Trudeau considerably less that PP and I trust PP far more. (That I trust a politician at all is a major accomplishment for me.)

That being said, I think a CPC government could attempt to reverse the downward spiral we are currently in. The CPC will need a strong majority to govern in the face of the NDP/LPC coalition or they will have us back to the polls within a year. Even then, they will have a tough time getting any bills past a left-leaning LPC friendly Senate.

 

[Lumber]

First and foremost, recognizing qualifications from abroad. It is far too hard for a foreign trained doctor to work here. I just found out that a girl I went to high-school with has decided to move her family to Australia because, after a year and a half of trying, she can't get her Canadian license to practice as a Doctor, despite the fact that she was educated in Australia. Don't even get me started on cross-province qualifications. Why we have multiple colleges vice one national one eludes me. Actually, it doesn't; they have their own little fiefdoms and they refuse to see that disappear.

So the woman I referenced above actually had her story published on CBC. Reading it in detail, its way worse and more frustrating that I though. Reading this actually made my blood boil:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadian-doctor-struggle-to-get-licensed-1.6890254

 

[Lumber]

On the other hand, Trudeau doesn't highlight or give detailed plans of any of his policies or objectives. Its make campaign promises, get elected and then do a bunch of different shit. Hell, he loves to spend a wad of cash on some new BS programs when his popularity dips or when he is front and center of another scandal (which is quite often).

Actually, relatively speaking, he's not doing much worse than Harper in the realm of promises kept:

Polimeter

Polimeter is an independent initiative developed by political scientists that tracks whether politicians keep the promises they make.

www.polimeter.org