2022 CPC Leadership Discussion: Et tu Redeux

[QV]

Not directed at me, but here is my unsolicited take:

There is not a climate crisis. This is political theatre to advance the interests of China (reduce western nation's ability to make cheap energy and therefore prosper). A dominant China is the end goal.

Caveat: The world needs to be good stewards of the environment. At the moment clean fossil fuels are one of the best ways to achieve this while advancing and funding science for cleaner and better options.

I'm sure a progressive leftist (useful idiot) will come along to declare the above as racist <--- also political theatre to advance the interests of China.

 

[Quirky]

Do you believe that there is a climate crisis and the LPC is going about it the wrong way because other countries are still polluting, or that there isn’t a climate crisis at all?

From a Canadian context no, there is no climate crisis that we can 'fight'. Canada can go completely dark and nothing will change. Our current global pollution is irrelevant and mandates and policies that make life more costly and miserable for canadians won't change anything. We are literally strangling ourselves for nothing. You'll own nothing, do nothing and be happy. This is the liberal utopia, make everyone as miserable as they are.

On the topic:

 

[dimsum]

From a Canadian context no, there is no climate crisis that we can 'fight'. Canada can go completely dark and nothing will change. Our current global pollution is irrelevant and mandates and policies that make life more costly and miserable for canadians won't change anything. We are literally strangling ourselves for nothing. You'll own nothing, do nothing and be happy. This is the liberal utopia, make everyone as miserable as they are.

Ok, so since you’re arguing that Canada can’t fight it, you’re saying there is a climate crisis, right? Because the way you were replying before (the “climate cRiSiS” part, specifically), it seemed a bit ambiguous.

I want to know where your stance is regarding the issue itself, not what the GoC is (or isn’t) doing about it.

 

[Quirky]

want to know where your stance is regarding the issue itself, not what the GoC is (or isn’t) doing about it.

I won’t be voting for a gov that has policies in place which reduce the QOL, make everything more expensive (carbon tax) and do stupid shit like mandating emission free vehicles by random dates. I don’t for a second believe that Canada makes a difference to global weather that we need such draconian policies in place.

 

[dimsum]

I won’t be voting for a gov that has policies in place which reduce the QOL, make everything more expensive (carbon tax) and do stupid shit like mandating emission free vehicles by random dates. I don’t for a second believe that Canada makes a difference to global weather that we need such draconian policies in place.

…again, my question was on your stance whether a climate crisis exists.

It’s really a “yes” or “no” question.

 

[Halifax Tar]

…again, my question was on your stance whether a climate crisis exists.

It’s really a “yes” or “no” question.

Can we have an undecided option ?

I'm not convinced it is or isn't a real thing yet.

 

[Quirky]

…again, my question was on your stance whether a climate crisis exists.

It’s really a “yes” or “no” question.

I don’t care about things I have no control and impact over. Every canadian can go zero emission and the global weather patterns will remain the same. The greatest impact to emissions is the individual themselves. Diehard liberals should put money where their mouth is and kill themselves if they want to have any meaningful impact to climate change.

Liberal climate policy: Paying taxes after you already paid income taxes, then paying more tax spread and hidden in all goods and services as businesses pass it onto the customers.

Climate change, whether real or not, is not something Canadians should be concerned about.

 

[dimsum]

I don’t care about things I have no control and impact over. Every canadian can go zero emission and the global weather patterns will remain the same. The greatest impact to emissions is the individual themselves. Diehard liberals should put money where their mouth is and kill themselves if they want to have any meaningful impact to climate change.

Liberal climate policy: Paying taxes after you already paid income taxes, then paying more tax spread and hidden in all goods and services as businesses pass it onto the customers.

Climate change, whether real or not, is not something Canadians should be concerned about.

That’s an interesting take.

So, at the risk of further tangent, does that extend to things like crime, housing costs, poverty, etc? Those are much bigger than any one person’s span of control.

 

[dimsum]

Can we have an undecided option ?

I'm not convinced it is or isn't a real thing yet.

Of course.

 

[Lumber]

Climate change, whether real or not, is not something Canadians should be concerned about.

Uhhh..

Canada is going to sea more frequent and worse forest fires.

Food prices will risee due to worsening droughts in many places where we either grow our own, or internationally from where we import food.

Indigenous peoples are having their way of life highly effected as the changing climate is affecting their traditional sources of food (seals fort the Inuit, Caribou for the Gwichʼin people).

Fewer backyard ice rinks!

 

[brihard]

Climate change, whether real or not, is not something Canadians should be concerned about.

If you could do the rest of us a solid and let the property insurance companies know that, that would be great.

I know here in eastern Ontario we’ve seen a several year run of unprecedented extreme weather events and climactic trends- floods, tornadoes, smoke from major fires... A tornado narrowly missed my house last summer; when I was growing up here that was nearly unheard of, now it’s several times per summer.

Some parts of B.C. would probably also have informed opinions on whether climactic change is causing impacts we should worry about or not.

 

[dimsum]

If you could do the rest of us a solid and let the property insurance companies know that, that would be great.

I know here in eastern Ontario we’ve seen a several year run of unprecedented extreme weather events and climactic trends- floods, tornadoes, smoke from major fires... A tornado narrowly missed my house last summer; when I was growing up here that was nearly unheard of, now it’s several times per summer.

Some parts of B.C. would probably also have informed opinions on whether climactic change is causing impacts we should worry about or not.

Hey haven’t you heard? It’s not in their control so they don’t care.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

It's not a crisis at all......its Mother Nature doing her change thing as she has done for millions of years, and will continue to do do long after we are (humans) are gone, ala the dinosaurs.

This thread, and the whole debacle is just "young wo/men yelling at clouds".

 

[dimsum]

It's not a crisis at all......its Mother Nature doing her change thing as she has done for millions of years, and will continue to do do long after we are (humans) are gone, ala the dinosaurs.

This thread, and the whole debacle is just "young wo/men yelling at clouds".

Sort of.

Yes, the earth has had wider swings in climate. However, the difference between the Anthropocene and the natural swings is that the rate of change is much faster.

This video explains it a lot better than I can.

 

[TacticalTea]

Sort of.

Yes, the earth has had wider swings in climate. However, the difference between the Anthropocene and the natural swings is that the rate of change is much faster.

This video explains it a lot better than I can.

Most denial arguments I've seen have come across as disingenuous.

Things like showing a graph of atmospheric carbon that seems to be on a downtrend but if you look closer the graph ends at the year 1840, or claiming that it is somehow arrogant to think we puny humans could significantly affect climate, as if our actions had no consequence, as if producing billions of tons of smoke every year was utterly inconsequential.

Or, as you alluded to, pretending that rate of change doesn't matter. It's like saying current inflation rates don't matter because there's already been 2500% since 1914, so 12% is nothing!

As such I do believe in the theory of man-made climate change, but I don't adhere to many of the identified "solutions", which happen to cause more harm than good. Hiking carbon taxes during periods of high inflation, banning nuclear only to later revert to coal, refusing to exploit natural gas which would've prevented (at least in part) said return to coal, banning (dual use) plastic grocery bags which forces me to start buying (single use) plastic garbage bags etc.

Lots of foolish ideological nonsense pushed by the environmentalists.

 

[Good2Golf]

…again, my question was on your stance whether a climate crisis exists.

It’s really a “yes” or “no” question.

Well…you didn’t qualify/quantify ‘crisis’ so it’s actually a bit of a stretch to demand a “yes” or “no” answer. Perhaps throw some comparative climatological figures in there and re-ask for a “yes”’or “no”

 

[Baz]

... Every canadian can go zero emission and the global weather patterns will remain the same. ...

Full disclosure first: my review of the evidence tells me "man made" climate change is a threat, but not the biggest threat (the biggest threat is the rise of the voices at the extremes, ie left and right, and the discord that causes). Therefore, a measured response is required.

This particular argument really bothers me. Canadians are among the worst polluters of all types, especially CO2, but we use this argument (of we're "small") to say it doesn't matter. The main reason for this is we have a standard of living very similar to the US in a much colder climate (the counterpoint being they have higher needs for cooling).

What this is really saying is "yeah, we sucked as much resources as we could to get were we are, but were not going to let you other countries do that, and we're not going to change." And then we wonder why they "hate us." I know that is a gross oversimplification, but...

By the way, a measured response would be to stop using it as a wedge issue, help Canadian companies develop and switch to alternate sources, and make a crap ton of money by leading the way. Because someone is going to.

 

[FSTO]

By the way, a measured response would be to stop using it as a wedge issue

This^^^
So much time and energy has been wasted because it was. Now people’s backs are up because one side called the other side moronic assholes for not totally agreeing with them.
And now here we are.

 

[Quirky]

Canada is going to sea more frequent and worse forest fires. worsening droughts . Indigenous peoples are having their way of life highly effected as the changing climate is affecting their traditional sources of food (seals fort the Inuit, Caribou for the Gwichʼin people).

I know here in eastern Ontario we’ve seen a several year run of unprecedented extreme weather events and climactic trends- floods, tornadoes, smoke from major fires... A tornado narrowly missed my house last summer; when I was growing up here that was nearly unheard of, now it’s several times per summer.

Some parts of B.C. would probably also have informed opinions on whether climactic change is causing impacts we should worry about or not.

Adapt or die.

The earth doesn't care what canadians do, how many EVs we drive, how many heat pumps we install or how much tax we pay. There will still be forest fires, there will still be floods, tornados, droughts.

I won't be voting for a party who's 'fight' on climate "crisis" is to make the lives of its citizens more expensive without showing any meaningful results.

 

[Rifleman62]

Speaking of taxes, the Cdn Federation of Taxpayers reports:

Payroll taxes: The federal government is raising the mandatory Canada Pension Plan and Employment Insurance contributions in 2024. These payroll tax increases will cost a worker up to $347 next year.

For workers making $73,200 or more, federal payroll taxes (CPP and EI tax) will cost them $5,104 in 2024. Their employer will also be forced to pay $5,524.

Carbon tax: The federal carbon tax is increasing to more than 17 cents per litre of gas and 15 cents per cubic metre of natural gas on Apr. 1, 2024. The carbon tax will cost the average household between $377 and $911in 2024-25, even after the rebates, according to the Parliamentary Budget Officer.

Alcohol escalator tax: Alcohol taxes will increase by 4.7 per cent on Apr. 1, 2024. Taxes already account for about half of the price of beer, 65 per cent of the price of wine and more than three quarters of the price of spirits. This tax hike will cost Canadians almost $100 million next year.