2022 CPC Leadership Discussion: Et tu Redeux

[The Bread Guy]

"Experts" are to blame when they state uncertain claims with certainty, and degrade themselves when they do so with exaggeration ...

Amplified & accelerated by those (social and other media) who boil the certain, exaggerated claims down even more into quick clips & memes with max "gotcha" power but zero nuance and context.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Amplified & accelerated by those (social and other media) who boil the certain, exaggerated claims down even more into quick clips & memes with max "gotcha" power but zero nuance and context.

I would add "mis-stated" to "A&A". It's certainly in the power of established commercial "legacy" media to conduct themselves like a profession, if they should ever choose to do so.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Should we not wait until we have an established industry, that has seen international investment sunk into Canadian operations before we start throwing these tariffs in place (regardless of the gov't in power)? I get the tariffs on finished products, but putting tariffs on the primary materials to which we do not already have a thriving domestic industry to produce them seems a good way to drive away investors who would create those better paying jobs.

As with most things its political. In this case both the US and Mexico have levied tariffs against Chinese EV's, steel, and other products. The Canadian government is afraid that if it doesn't do something Canada could be used to as a dumping ground for Chinese products which, in turn, could end up in the US.

 

[Remius]

As with most things its political. In this case both the US and Mexico have levied tariffs against Chinese EV's, steel, and other products. The Canadian government is afraid that if it doesn't do something Canada could be used to as a dumping ground for Chinese products which, in turn, could end up in the US.

Also part of them trying to clumsily change the narrative on this government.

 

[QV]

"Experts" are to blame when they state uncertain claims with certainty, and degrade themselves when they do so with exaggeration. They taint themselves and everyone else in the "guild of experts" - all the people who have expertise hang together in public perception.

"If we know you lied once - usually for political advantage - how are we supposed to know when you lie in future? If those flawed human experts lied, how are we supposed to know we can trust these other flawed human experts?"

The only way the "distrust-trust" slider can be moved right is if they all police themselves and their peers, openly and fiercely, on the op-ed pages.

And since those are censored...

 

[Good2Golf]

So 9 Aug, Poilievre says Canada should put tariffs on Chinese EVs and raw materials used to make those EVs.

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7290108

Three days later, 12 Aug, Trudeau says Poilievre call to tariff Chinese EVs and materials is wrong. Well, technically, he calls it “baloney.” ( )

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7292143

Today… (27 Aug…18 days after Poilievre says to do it and 15 days after Trudeau says they won’t do it…and probably a few hours after the White House tells Trudeau to do it… )

Looks like the Liberals have decided Poilievre’s idea of putting a tariff on Chinese EVs is finally a good idea…

One-on-one with Minister Champagne

Vassy Kapelos speaks to Minister François-Philippe Champagne on the government's announced tariffs on Chinese EVs.

ottawa.ctvnews.ca

 

[Furniture]

So 9 Aug, Poilievre says Canada should put tariffs on Chinese EVs and raw materials used to make those EVs.

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7290108

Three days later, 12 Aug, Trudeau says Poilievre call to tariff Chinese EVs and materials is wrong. Well, technically, he calls it “baloney.” ( )

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7292143

Today… (27 Aug…18 days after Poilievre says to do it and 15 days after Trudeau says they won’t do it…and probably a few hours after the White House tells Trudeau to do it… )

Looks like the Liberals have decided Poilievre’s idea of putting a tariff on Chinese EVs is finally a good idea…

One-on-one with Minister Champagne

Vassy Kapelos speaks to Minister François-Philippe Champagne on the government's announced tariffs on Chinese EVs.

ottawa.ctvnews.ca

In the LPC's defense, they at least came around to their senses eventually...

 

[Remius]

In the LPC's defense, they at least came around to their senses eventually...

To an extent. I think they are flailing a bit and they likely also faced some US pressure as well.

That being said at least it’s done.

 

[Furniture]

To an extent. I think they are flailing a bit and they likely also faced some US pressure as well.

That being said at least it’s done.

When a government changes its mind on something and comes around to a sensible position, I firmly believe they should be praised. Even if they tried all the worst options first...

Reward behavior you want, and making a smart choice is something I want from governments.

 

[QV]

When a government changes its mind on something and comes around to a sensible position, I firmly believe they should be praised. Even if they tried all the worst options first...

Reward behavior you want, and making a smart choice is something I want from governments.

No thanks. I wouldn't want to be lead by anyone that has judgement so bad they try all the worst options first.

 

[Remius]

No thanks. I wouldn't want to be lead by anyone that has judgement so bad they try all the worst options first.

So what would be your opinion then on Doug Ford who has flip flopped more times than I can count? At least he makes a mistake he owns it and reverses it. I’d rather that than some stupid double down on a bad decision.

 

[Furniture]

No thanks. I wouldn't want to be lead by anyone that has judgement so bad they try all the worst options first.

It's not about liking the government, it's about rewarding the correct behaviour.

I'd rather a LPC government that can admit mistakes, than one that continues to follow an ideology blindly.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

So 9 Aug, Poilievre says Canada should put tariffs on Chinese EVs and raw materials used to make those EVs.

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7290108

Three days later, 12 Aug, Trudeau says Poilievre call to tariff Chinese EVs and materials is wrong. Well, technically, he calls it “baloney.” ( )

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7292143

Today… (27 Aug…18 days after Poilievre says to do it and 15 days after Trudeau says they won’t do it…and probably a few hours after the White House tells Trudeau to do it… )

Looks like the Liberals have decided Poilievre’s idea of putting a tariff on Chinese EVs is finally a good idea…

One-on-one with Minister Champagne

Vassy Kapelos speaks to Minister François-Philippe Champagne on the government's announced tariffs on Chinese EVs.

ottawa.ctvnews.ca

Trudeau sounds like Harris. Stealing the competitions ideas.

Probably why PP won't put his full policy on the table.

 

[The Bread Guy]

No thanks. I wouldn't want to be lead by anyone that has judgement so bad they try all the worst options first.

That puts a lot of faith in any single organization always getting the optimal solution the very first time without any need of course correction. Admitting mistakes and changing course to improve aren’t necessarily bad things. Too often and always the same mistakes? That’s why there are elections.

 

[Good2Golf]

Probably why PP won't put his full policy on the table.

He won’t put his full policy on the table until after the November *2024 election down south. I wouldn’t either. Have to see how Team Red is going to play the US outcome game in 2025. It would be foolish to bring anything out before America decides which way it’s going, lest one lock themselves to playing the game one way then have the rules change after the ball is kicked (down south).

 

[dimsum]

Despite all of the posturing, Canada doesn’t have an election date set yet. So why would any party release any platform?

 

[QV]

That puts a lot of faith in any single organization always getting the optimal solution the very first time without any need of course correction. Admitting mistakes and changing course to improve aren’t necessarily bad things. Too often and always the same mistakes? That’s why there are elections.

How many chances?

 

[QV]

So when do you guys figure the LPC contract for internet influencers will be awarded ahead of the next election? October? I expect to see Altair return about November…

 

[dimsum]

No thanks. I wouldn't want to be lead by anyone that has judgement so bad they try all the worst options first.

Worst options according to who? One’s opinion isn’t necessarily the majority opinion.

This forum leans conservative and Liberal views are denigrated, but what if those are the majority views of the country? Democracy is the rule of the majority of the people, right?

 

[OldSolduer]

Democracy is the rule of the majority of the people, right?

Supposed to be - BUT Paul Martin said in the election campaign when Harper trashed him at the ballot box:

"The minority will not be dictated to by the majority"

Paul Martin said this. I recall it quite well.