2025 Wildfire Season

[Quirky]

Now is not the time to have a campfire in the bush or at an RV site and I don’t understand why we do not have a province wide ban on them right now.

That's called being proactive.

|tinfoil hat|
BC NDP government wants forest fires, evacuations and towns burned. That way they can push their environmental human-caused climate change hysteria and offer taxes as a solution.

 

[Cloud Cover]

That's called being proactive.

|tinfoil hat|
BC NDP government wants forest fires, evacuations and towns burned. That way they can push their environmental human-caused climate change hysteria and offer taxes as a solution.

You’re damned right they do. Government arson is not a conspiracy, even if they didn’t light the match.

 

[Brad Sallows]

You’re damned right they do. Government arson is not a conspiracy, even if they didn’t light the match.

Incompetence and cowardice, not malice. Governments in Canada are (fortunately) reluctant to curtail freedoms, and more reluctant since COVID. (I suppose if they'd thought their muscle-flexing had been well-received, they'd be more prone to illiberal responses.) Reconstruction costs money, and they don't like unnecessary spending. (See also: Bastiat's Broken Window.) And they find it difficult to account for themselves when it takes years to rebuild purely because of limitations they set.

 

[foresterab]

Touché

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Damn...I owe that guy a beer.

What a clean professional response on so many aspects.

 

[foresterab]

What percentage of fires are caused by ATV's and or their operators?
Break that down even more into how many because of lack of spark arrestors?
I am curious what the data shows here in Canada.

It's funny because of the half a dozen or so ATV fires I can think of being on spark arrestors were not even looked at....but the thick mat of grass around the exhaust pipes smoking from driving through muskeg or grass sure have started each one. Some were total vehicle losses....others just mud/peat/grass dropped off behind them on the trail.

Don't get me wrong...also been on other fires where a spark arrestor would have been a big difference in what happened.

But ATV's, like any vehicle, take maintenance and awareness that that ground I was driving over for an hour might not be ideal. Nothing makes you move faster than stopping to check the trail ahead and realizing your quad is about to light on fire due to peat moss packed around the exhaust.

 

[RangerRay]

What percentage of fires are caused by ATV's and or their operators?
Break that down even more into how many because of lack of spark arrestors?
I am curious what the data shows here in Canada.

Sorry for taking a while getting back to you. I somehow missed this.

Not sure on actual stats, but I know it was a common enough occurrence in places I worked in. If it wasn’t the spark arrestor missing or malfunctioning, hot machines idling in tall dry grass or dry vegetation getting stuck on the machine then falling off down the trail wasn’t unheard of. Once, a fire was caused by someone riding an ATV to a site, parking it on dry grass, and while he hiked to his remote cabin, the grass caught fire and burned up the ATV and a few ha.s of forest.

The point was that most human-caused fires were from industrial or recreational uses. There are firebugs out there too, but those are the minority of even human caused fires. The conspiracy theory that there is an army of well funded eco-terrorists running around burning down the forests to force people into cities is just that, a conspiracy theory.

 

[foresterab]

Elizabeth May managed to put together an interesting idea (but not exactly a new one), what are everyone's thoughts on it?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1930426063378886834

I fear I might have to start reporting myself as a smoker to my doctor, gotten use to all the smoke in the air here in Ottawa.

Lets see...starting wage of $25-27/hr + OT at minimum. Plus room and board provided. So not cheap. And approximately 2 weeks training for a new recruit who has already passed fitness test and has basic training in First Aid/Driver's License.

Just the fitness test, First Aid and Full Driver's license eliminates many youth. Two weeks training needs eliminates high school kids if you're only getting them for 5 weeks work.

Crew leader on Initial attack - think Corporal - is usually a 3rd year + recruit. Unit Crew is usually 5-7 years experience (also a Strike Team Leader qualified person so can run up to 7 crews).

Major fire you're into Divisions (think Company Commander). Branch Directors (Think Battalion), or Ops Chief (Division) if it's a huge manpower fire with 1000+ men involved. That number does not count catering or delivery staff supporting incident. Some have pushed 1,500.

My point here is that while I can maybe find troops quick....what I can not find is the command structure to make them effective. And while it's great if there is tons going on...what do you do if there is nothing going on? A province is not going to hire 1,000 Civil Defense Core staff to go do X project normally...at best it's going to be existing provincial resources or local contractors hired to the do the work.

Emergency response is some regards is much like the Armed Forces....lots of familiarity on structure and functions. But what do you do with an Army full of troops if in peace time with no threat? And when the threat comes there seems to always been a shortage of troops/equipment.

I'd rather see more work going into cleaning up the provincial training/tracking/reporting so it's more consistent between jurisdictions and look at ways to build up provincial capacity. But how to mobilize a ton of people...and keep the training relevant...and deal with the fitness needed...that's an expensive proposition. 30 years into the career my line days are done for extended deployments...a day here or there sure...but weeks on end...sorry bad back, knees and hearing reminding me I'm not 20 anymore.

 

[foresterab]

Sorry for taking a while getting back to you. I somehow missed this.

Not sure on actual stats, but I know it was a common enough occurrence in places I worked in. If it wasn’t the spark arrestor missing or malfunctioning, hot machines idling in tall dry grass or dry vegetation getting stuck on the machine then falling off down the trail wasn’t unheard of. Once, a fire was caused by someone riding an ATV to a site, parking it on dry grass, and while he hiked to his remote cabin, the grass caught fire and burned up the ATV and a few ha.s of forest.

The point was that most human-caused fires were from industrial or recreational uses. There are firebugs out there too, but those are the minority of even human caused fires. The conspiracy theory that there is an army of well funded eco-terrorists running around burning down the forests to force people into cities is just that, a conspiracy theory.

It's also tough because each province defines fires as human vs. lightning vs. undetermined....that really broad category is relevant. But the sub categories vary by jurisdiction.

Was listening to a podcast on investigations and they talked about one area where tree falls onto a powerline = human caused fire. This is due to agreements with the powerline company to do the maintenance so trees shouldn't be falling on them. Next area...tree falls onto a fire = natural cause due to wind. Note this is not a unique situation to Canada but also a similar situation in the US and ???? areas (sorry I don't hear much about Europe or Australia in that field).

So to get back to quads...are they quad fires? recreation fires due to quading activities? campfires getting away due to quading into the middle of the area = unsafe fire? Wish I had a simple answer for you but sometimes there isn't one.

If the guy was out quading and has mud on the muffler but the machine is parked right beside the fire....was that a spark from the fire or quad? Unless I can figure that out through fire pattern indicators or interviews....might be an undetermined cause....because either is viable and I can't disprove one of two likely sources.

Undetermined is also a good call in many cases if it's been investigated as it might mean the investigator is 80% sure...but not 100%. And it also means that it's not a pre-determined outcome which is critical if you're the landowner being investigated...it might appear the tree on the powerline started the fire.....but maybe it was a lightning strike further into the forest that caused the fire resulting in the burning tree starting the fire.

See how much fun fire investigations, origin and cause determination are?

 

[foresterab]

News from Australia,

I don't know this airframe but I'm sure some fixed wing guys here will have an opinion. Definately seems to align with some of the C-130 +MAFFS units out there thinking or the recent Saskatchewan Dash 8-Q400M options. (will leave the politics and timing of training pilots out of this).

Large fixed wing fleet set to expand with three C-160s – Wildfire Today

wildfiretoday.com

foresterab

 

[childs56]

News from Australia,

I don't know this airframe but I'm sure some fixed wing guys here will have an opinion. Definately seems to align with some of the C-130 +MAFFS units out there thinking or the recent Saskatchewan Dash 8-Q400M options. (will leave the politics and timing of training pilots out of this).

Large fixed wing fleet set to expand with three C-160s – Wildfire Today

wildfiretoday.com

foresterab

The Feds need to get behind De Havilland Canada ASAP to become the worlds leader in firefighting aircraft along with the future of Military and heavy industry transport. Commit a few bucks to secure future Transport aviation in Canada.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

It's also tough because each province defines fires as human vs. lightning vs. undetermined....that really broad category is relevant. But the sub categories vary by jurisdiction.

You might not want to find out that a number of fires have been started members of certain communities up there, because said members wanted the work of putting it out.

(Then there is the US case of some guys Mom lighting fires so her son could be a hero, talk about "helicopter parenting" )

 

[Cloud Cover]

Good news, everything will be fine.
Carney just signed an agreement with Modi to allow wildfire crews from India to come on over and help out.

 

[foresterab]

You might not want to find out that a number of fires have been started members of certain communities up there, because said members wanted the work of putting it out.

(Then there is the US case of some guys Mom lighting fires so her son could be a hero, talk about "helicopter parenting" )

Oh I'm fully aware of what your hinting at. Used to be much more of an issue.

Until you bring out of area resources in to fight the fires and locals don't get work....changes things fast. But many different situations come into play when you deal with ignitions by people. Mental health, economic pressures (to get work or hide crimes), cultural, hero worship (people want to be the hero so start fires to be the center of attention putting them out), or just plain bad luck and stupidity.

Always something new to learn and new experience to be gained is all I know.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Good news, everything will be fine.
Carney just signed an agreement with Modi to allow wildfire crews from India to come on over and help out.

Didn't know that wildfires in Toronto and Surrey were such a problem?

 

[foresterab]

The Feds need to get behind De Havilland Canada ASAP to become the worlds leader in firefighting aircraft along with the future of Military and heavy industry transport. Commit a few bucks to secure future Transport aviation in Canada.

If Viking had half the support given to Bombardier they'd be scary...but they are making it work slowly.

That being said orders are starting to come in but as the air tanker fleets are all provincial assests where does the Federal Gov't get involved? Unless they buy Parks Canada a fleet?

Bell has the helicopter market so not sure that's a place to invest a new line/design.

Military transport again is a huge thing for me and I'd love to see a significant increase in all lift capacity within the CAF...especially heavy lift but not sure what the options are now the C17 line is closed.

 

[MilEME09]

The Feds need to get behind De Havilland Canada ASAP to become the worlds leader in firefighting aircraft along with the future of Military and heavy industry transport. Commit a few bucks to secure future Transport aviation in Canada.

De Haviland needs to get its activities in gear too, I live near where De Haviland field is to be built, construction was supposed to start early last year, now its supposed to be this summer. No reason given for the delay. They say first plane delivered from the new facility in 2028 but I just dont see it with how snails pace they are going.

 

[daftandbarmy]

If Viking had half the support given to Bombardier they'd be scary...but they are making it work slowly.

That being said orders are starting to come in but as the air tanker fleets are all provincial assests where does the Federal Gov't get involved? Unless they buy Parks Canada a fleet?

Bell has the helicopter market so not sure that's a place to invest a new line/design.

Military transport again is a huge thing for me and I'd love to see a significant increase in all lift capacity within the CAF...especially heavy lift but not sure what the options are now the C17 line is closed.

Wildfire contracts with tanker fleets, I assume the Feds can do that too if required for a variety of different needs...

 

[YZT580]

If Viking had half the support given to Bombardier they'd be scary...but they are making it work slowly.

That being said orders are starting to come in but as the air tanker fleets are all provincial assests where does the Federal Gov't get involved? Unless they buy Parks Canada a fleet?

Bell has the helicopter market so not sure that's a place to invest a new line/design.

Military transport again is a huge thing for me and I'd love to see a significant increase in all lift capacity within the CAF...especially heavy lift but not sure what the options are now the C17 line is closed.

Word from Paris is that could change. Boeing has suggested that the line could be re-opened as they still owns the field and it appears that at least some of the buildings are still there although their condition after 10 years could be a little ratty. With the exception of an upgraded Buffalo, what could we possibly add to military transport line? Lockheed still has the herc, airbus has the 400 and Embraer has the 390. Doesn't appear to be much room for an entrepreneur

 

[foresterab]

Word from Paris is that could change. Boeing has suggested that the line could be re-opened as they still owns the field and it appears that at least some of the buildings are still there although their condition after 10 years could be a little ratty. With the exception of an upgraded Buffalo, what could we possibly add to military transport line? Lockheed still has the herc, airbus has the 400 and Embraer has the 390. Doesn't appear to be much room for an entrepreneur

All I can think of is doing something like the following:

1) purchase C17's from European users as they transition to Airbus 400M's? Or Canada does the opposite but the end goal would be to increase the number of airframes.

2) Expand the C-130 fleet?

3) This is maybe where Canada gets in the game. The Bombardier Q-400 has been working well in many roles. Does an expanded fleet of these frames using a Q-400M airframe (a multi-role varient that allow passager or cargo or waterbombers?) align with some of the artic mission objectives? I believe there is a large number of them also in use in the civilian world for servincing remote northern communities.

4) Do we go to the light aircraft world of Turbo beavers and Twin Otters? Again thinking northern, remote access areas but can also work on skis. New modern version are available just in low production due to high frame costs (again a reflection of low production) but larger orders may assist both military and civilian use.

 

[MilEME09]

All I can think of is doing something like the following:

1) purchase C17's from European users as they transition to Airbus 400M's? Or Canada does the opposite but the end goal would be to increase the number of airframes.

2) Expand the C-130 fleet?

3) This is maybe where Canada gets in the game. The Bombardier Q-400 has been working well in many roles. Does an expanded fleet of these frames using a Q-400M airframe (a multi-role varient that allow passager or cargo or waterbombers?) align with some of the artic mission objectives? I believe there is a large number of them also in use in the civilian world for servincing remote northern communities.

4) Do we go to the light aircraft world of Turbo beavers and Twin Otters? Again thinking northern, remote access areas but can also work on skis. New modern version are available just in low production due to high frame costs (again a reflection of low production) but larger orders may assist both military and civilian use.

3) Q-400 is now owned by De Haviland, they are looking to restart production

4) theres also the option of the sherpa, there is interest in new production of that, and a modernized Twin otter is also in production

Another issue looks to be pay and pilot shortages

Helicopter pilot shortage in N.S. a concern ahead of wildfire season

Nova Scotia faces a helicopter pilot shortage as wildfire season begins, raising concerns about public safety and emergency response.

halifax.citynews.ca