2025 Wildfire Season

[Colin Parkinson]

Military transport again is a huge thing for me and I'd love to see a significant increase in all lift capacity within the CAF...especially heavy lift but not sure what the options are now the C17 line is closed.

To be fair our Transport fleet with the C130J, C17]s and now the MTT is likley the best it's ever been. I have to give the JT Liberals full credit for the MTT buy (I think I just threw up a bit , writing that).

 

[RangerRay]

Oh I'm fully aware of what your hinting at. Used to be much more of an issue.

Until you bring out of area resources in to fight the fires and locals don't get work....changes things fast. But many different situations come into play when you deal with ignitions by people. Mental health, economic pressures (to get work or hide crimes), cultural, hero worship (people want to be the hero so start fires to be the center of attention putting them out), or just plain bad luck and stupidity.

Always something new to learn and new experience to be gained is all I know.

Don’t forget boredom.

I’m familiar with case where two guys from a remote community were bored. So they decided that each would light fires at opposite ends of the valley to see whose fire would attract the tankers first.

 

[foresterab]

Don’t forget boredom.

I’m familiar with case where two guys from a remote community were bored. So they decided that each would light fires at opposite ends of the valley to see whose fire would attract the tankers first.

Lots of fires after school gets out in some areas as well for the same reason. Excitement and reality TV live.

I prefer to think of ways to provide meaningful hope for those kids to have a future instead of dwelling on why that's the only option they feel they have.

 

[lenaitch]

All I can think of is doing something like the following:

1) purchase C17's from European users as they transition to Airbus 400M's? Or Canada does the opposite but the end goal would be to increase the number of airframes.

2) Expand the C-130 fleet?

3) This is maybe where Canada gets in the game. The Bombardier Q-400 has been working well in many roles. Does an expanded fleet of these frames using a Q-400M airframe (a multi-role varient that allow passager or cargo or waterbombers?) align with some of the artic mission objectives? I believe there is a large number of them also in use in the civilian world for servincing remote northern communities.

4) Do we go to the light aircraft world of Turbo beavers and Twin Otters? Again thinking northern, remote access areas but can also work on skis. New modern version are available just in low production due to high frame costs (again a reflection of low production) but larger orders may assist both military and civilian use.

Just in terms of fire suppression, two problems with land-based equipment is the need to have suitable facilities at airports and the cycle time lost in transiting to and from airports and replenishing. Obviously, in an area of few lakes or oceans, it's not an issue but much of the fire-vulnerable area of Canada is fairly water-adjacent.

 

[foresterab]

Just in terms of fire suppression, two problems with land-based equipment is the need to have suitable facilities at airports and the cycle time lost in transiting to and from airports and replenishing. Obviously, in an area of few lakes or oceans, it's not an issue but much of the fire-vulnerable area of Canada is fairly water-adjacent.

Some areas are excellent for cycle times and scooper lakes...Ontario, MB, SK come to mind. Parts of the Okanogan as well.

Alberta and northern BC...not so much. Some lakes especially in the NE AB but frankly I don't get to see the CL-215's or AT-802U's much due to lack of scooper capable lakes. There's some big water bodies by surface area but many are more like shallow duck ponds than true deep lakes which can cause issues.

I know Ontario has the Twin Otter scooper units but have never seen them in action to compare against the AT-802U. CL-415 vs. CL-215 need a medium sized lake and while I know they can land on rivers (saw one land in Thailand in middle of a river in Bangkok) it's a question of straightness, depth, and banks to allow safe approach.

The other challage is the size of plane vs. topography....I love the sights but hate the experience of flying over the mountain ridges and dealing the the air thermal changes on each side. Larger aircraft tend to handle it better than the smaller tankers like the AT-802's but if conditions are good the little guys can nip into the valley where the big units like the Electra L-180's can not.

Point I'm trying to make is I don't know if there is a perfect airframe for use across Canada. There are some very good planes for X situation and there are better planes for Y. The market seems to be stabilizing around three models though....CL-415 (and the future CL-515), Bombardier Dash 8-Q400, and Air Tractor 802's

Two of the 3 designs are Canadian and built here so that's a pretty good track record. Especially when you see them in use in other countries around the world.

 

[YZT580]

Some areas are excellent for cycle times and scooper lakes...Ontario, MB, SK come to mind. Parts of the Okanogan as well.

Alberta and northern BC...not so much. Some lakes especially in the NE AB but frankly I don't get to see the CL-215's or AT-802U's much due to lack of scooper capable lakes. There's some big water bodies by surface area but many are more like shallow duck ponds than true deep lakes which can cause issues.

I know Ontario has the Twin Otter scooper units but have never seen them in action to compare against the AT-802U. CL-415 vs. CL-215 need a medium sized lake and while I know they can land on rivers (saw one land in Thailand in middle of a river in Bangkok) it's a question of straightness, depth, and banks to allow safe approach.

The other challage is the size of plane vs. topography....I love the sights but hate the experience of flying over the mountain ridges and dealing the the air thermal changes on each side. Larger aircraft tend to handle it better than the smaller tankers like the AT-802's but if conditions are good the little guys can nip into the valley where the big units like the Electra L-180's can not.

Point I'm trying to make is I don't know if there is a perfect airframe for use across Canada. There are some very good planes for X situation and there are better planes for Y. The market seems to be stabilizing around three models though....CL-415 (and the future CL-515), Bombardier Dash 8-Q400, and Air Tractor 802's

Two of the 3 designs are Canadian and built here so that's a pretty good track record. Especially when you see them in use in other countries around the world.

And some can use either runway or water area for reloads so advantage to the CL515. And its design makes it suitable for less than perfect surfaces. Problem is it is two to three years from delivery and the fires are burning now. The C130 and the Transals could bridge that gap