5 Canadian soldiers suspended after Nazi salute video emerges

[Navy_Pete]

I not so fondly recall one or two 'kangaroo courts', presided over by various Reserve COs in the 90s/early 00's, that convinced me I would never subject any of my soldiers, even the naughty ones, to that process if I could help it.

Fortunately, no one did anything bad enough to have to resort to it.

Don't need to go to the Reserves, remember having to explain to an embarked Cmdre that was TG commander he didn't have the authority to strip someone of their substantive rank because they put in a cease training for the stoker qual needed to be CERA.

 

[Cloud Cover]

These men will be sentenced by General Dreedle to life in front of a firing squad armed with nerf guns.

 

[Cloud Cover]

Don't need to go to the Reserves, remember having to explain to an embarked Cmdre that was TG commander he didn't have the authority to strip someone of their substantive rank because they put in a cease training for the stoker qual needed to be CERA.

JC on a cracker.

 

[ArmyRick]

On the original story. How tone deaf do these morons have to be? Do they not understand anything about the political landscape in Canada right now? Or did they think they would not get caught?
This wasn't acceptable in 1975 or 1995 or 2025.

 

[brihard]

On the original story. How tone deaf do these morons have to be? Do they not understand anything about the political landscape in Canada right now? Or did they think they would not get caught?
This wasn't acceptable in 1975 or 1995 or 2025.

The article got a bit of detail added; sounds like a party in some dude’s basement somewhere and someone caught a thirty second video of what was described and brought it forward to CAF recently. Not sure how word they reached the media. But yeah, suggests this is how at least a small gaggle felt comfortable acting at a normal house party.

 

[ArmyRick]

Not sure how word they reached the media.

after serving 28 years, I realized no matter how much you think something will not get out (even a humour intended photograph), it gets out.

Sometimes it goes Major media to lesser media to gossip circles to finally military chain of command. And no RSM ever wants to be blindsided that way.

This was plain DUMB.

 

[Maxman1]

I would bet, dollars to donuts, that the vast majority of the “disturbing comments” are from bot farms in Iran or Russia, looking at amping the incident.

We have seen this in the past in the west.

Or:

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

This wasn't acceptable in 1975 or 1995 or 2025.

Not even if you were the "Spare" going to a costumed party.

This was plain DUMB.

Yes. But the consequences for young soldier being dumb in what ought to be private circumstances does not call for punishment or administrative consequences on the level that should be meted to actual right wing supremacists.

P.S.: I know what some will say: "There is no privacy today with social media". Well that's an unfortunate fact of life because everyone needs some form of privacy where they can be with friends, shoot the breeze, bitch, goof and generally say and do dumb things in order to decompress.

 

[ArmyRick]

Yes. But the consequences for young soldier being dumb in what ought to be private circumstances does not call for punishment or administrative consequences on the level that should be meted to actual right wing supremacists.

Care to elaborate or go into more detail?

 

[brihard]

Not even if you were the "Spare" going to a costumed party.



Yes. But the consequences for young soldier being dumb in what ought to be private circumstances does not call for punishment or administrative consequences on the level that should be meted to actual right wing supremacists.

P.S.: I know what some will say: "There is no privacy today with social media". Well that's an unfortunate fact of life because everyone needs some form of privacy where they can be with friends, shoot the breeze, bitch, goof and generally say and do dumb things in order to decompress.

I’ll split the middle on this one and say some investigation is merited to determine whether this brief video captured merely some abject stupidity, some really poorly conceived joking around, or whether it captured a display of behaviour more reflective of one or more soldiers holding views incompatible with honourable service. Could go either way. Another file in the queue for CFNCIU.

 

[OldSolduer]

Army Rick might remember the shitstick we had in 2 VP in the 90s who had Nazi shit in his room

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Care to elaborate or go into more detail?

Sure.

Right-wing supremacists ought to be driven out of the military. Their point of view and attitude are contrary to our values and our mission statement and very unlikely to be "corrected" by anything the military would try to rehabilitate them. So, for them, disciplinary proceedings if applicable and release from the forces in all cases after that.

Soldiers/airpeople/sailors doing, for some unknown reason, something dumb related to fascism at a party, under circumstances that don't amount to a "white supremacist meet" and who otherwise do not exhibit or hold such views, should be disciplined as appropriate, perhaps put on C & P, but should not have their career put in jeopardy, especially if they are otherwise good soldiers/airpeople/sailors. Dumb will always be Dumb, but does not merit the "death" penalty that is dismissal.

My mention of a "Spare" is, of course, a reference to a certain prince of the realm's participation in a costumed party disguised as a Nazi. If he can do dumb things, knowing full well his grand-mother would go ballistic on him, perhaps we can cut some slack to dumb junior ranks.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

I’ll split the middle on this one and say some investigation is merited to determine whether this brief video captured merely some abject stupidity, some really poorly conceived joking around, or whether it captured a display of behaviour more reflective of one or more soldiers holding views incompatible with honourable service. Could go either way. Another file in the queue for CFNCIU.

Absolutely!

 

[The Bread Guy]

P.S.: I know what some will say: "There is no privacy today with social media". Well that's an unfortunate fact of life because everyone needs some form of privacy where they can be with friends, shoot the breeze, bitch, goof and generally say and do dumb things in order to decompress.

1000%.

Could there be a need to, like in classrooms, ban phones certain places/times? Or does that punish the keeners who far outnumber the weiners who spoil it for others?

And I also know this just deals with a symptom, not the bigger/harder to solve problem of needing the world to see whazzup in one’s life.

 

[ArmyRick]

Right-wing supremacists ought to be driven out of the military.

Yes you are right. So should any other person who behaves in a disgraceful, unacceptable and socially intolerant manner.

A nazi or a Nazi supporter, is obviously vile and unacceptable.

A white supremacist is also vile and unacceptable.

A KKK/any other hate group is also vile and unacceptable.

So is hamas supporter, taliban supporter, any anti-semite, anti-white (yup its a thing), christian hate/anti-christian are other examples of hate groups that are equally vile and unacceptable.

Curious, what you describe as a "Right wing supremacist"? Right wing to me, is people who lean politically to the right. So would left wing supremacist be ok? I am not being contrarian but as someone who investigated troops who turned out to be committing acts of hate (had to turn the files over to the MPs), hate comes in all forms, not just "the right". Careful of your dialogue. Its slips easily from right wing is unacceptable to conservatives are unacceptable.

My own personal experiences I have encountered these types of hate during my service in the CAF (1990-2018)
-Many anti-black (from dirty humour to outright hatred)
-Many anti-semite (Jewish bashing I found problematic with many greater Toronto area reservist of a certain religious group, take a guess which one and it really disturbed me)
-I experienced it myself a few times, usually in dark humour (I have a German surname so I had more than my fair share of Nazi comments/third reich, etc, ironic, my best friend is Jewish and his grandfather survived the concentration camps in Poland)
-Anti-Muslim (this one picked up after 9/11 but was the easiest to reign in)
-Anti-Gay (More so earlier 90s and 00s, by 2005 or so, almost everyone seem to no longer give a shit)
-ANti-Italian (not that bad but some bone heads made comments, my wife is 100% italian descent)
-Anti-Sikh (Especially early 90s, this was actually some of the worst comments I heard)
-Anti-native (I met a few guys here and there who had nothing but disgust and bigotry for it)
-Anti-women in combat arms (again especially in the early 90s)

When I was a troop, other than not participating or walking away, not much I could do. By the time I became a Master Corporal, I had decided I would not tolerate this behaviour period. I surprised a few people who thought they could come up and "make some hateful comments, thinking I was of that type, big surprise, I would shut them down or report them CoC.

I was also surprised in 2000, when a black NCO I knew was charged for calling one of his black peers the N-word, he thought he had a free license to say it in jest.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

My mistake. I meant to say white supremacist.

Agree with that hate comes in many forms.

Surprised you didn’t mention two other forms I have experienced: anti-French and anti-Quebecers.

 

[MilEME09]

My mistake. I meant to say white supremacist.

Agree with that hate comes in many forms.

Surprised you didn’t mention two other forms I have experienced: anti-French and anti-Quebecers.

Yeap, my unit made headlines years ago because of an again white supremacist. That was a crazy one, and a headache as said persons IC

 

[ArmyRick]

Yeap, my unit made headlines years ago because of an again white supremacist. That was a crazy one, and a headache as said persons IC

Did it stay out of the national news?

 

[ArmyRick]

anti-French and anti-Quebecers

Of course. The anti-french/anti-Canadian (from quebecois) I heard both ways. On 3B INF PL WO (1 section was Van doo/french reservist, 2 and 3 section were RCR/PPCLI/Anglo reserve and yes, definitely some shots being fired back and forth here and there, passive aggressive.

 

[MilEME09]

Did it stay out of the national news?

Nope,

Its even an example now on the department website: look at Fireforce ventures

Personnel - Canada.ca

Since the outbreak of the global pandemic, the Canadian Armed Forces have been actively contributing to whole-of-government efforts in response to COVID-19.

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