5 year Cadet medals

[Oli]

...  I think the problem here is that on the one hand you want to issue medals, but on the other hand the cadets have very limited access to weapons, survival training and being pushed to the absolute limit. Medals are a very military thing.

By issuing medals you only further the feeling of helplessness that a lot of cadets feel.



Oli (GGHG)
Mainz Germany

 

[Michael OLeary]

Rather than mourning what cadets used to be, why cannot those in and interested in the movement focus on what Cadets is meant to be? The subject has certainly been examined and debated on these boards to the point where any thread that returns to it should be locked immediately to prevent the repetitious waste of bandwidth.

Why, exactly, does a new young Cadet, who never saw a service rifle in Cadet hands, or never attended a Reserve training exercise, learn to whine and moan about "the good old days"? It's because that is all they hear and read about from their more senior Cadets. If the senior Cadets with their rank and supervisory roles aren't promoting the value of the program, then who is supporting the current program as it is mandated to exist? If is such a poor program, then why do so many of these dissatisfied children remain within it? From what I have seen and read on these Forums alone, it seems that the most vocal members of the Cadet movement (both cadets and CIC) are the ones who cannot understand why Canada will not contravene international agreements on the training of child soldiers and let 14 year olds fire service rifles?

It's well past time to take that particular dead horse, bury it, let the piper play the lament, and march back to barracks. It is certainly time to stop seeing nearly every thread in this forum circle around to the same complaints that today isn't like yesterday.

 

[sgt_mandal]

I agree.

But about the medal, I think it would be a good thing. Even if, like you say, it would be awarded to the senior cadets, the new recruits and more junior ranking cadets will see the medal and maybe say to themselves "Wow, I would like to earn that one day". I know teh first time I saw a cadet wearing medals, I wanted to earn one. Maybe there are others who think this way, maybe it's just me. But if there are others who think that way, i think it would be a good thing to help keep cadets in the system.

 

[Inch]

Michael, I couldn't agree more.

Personally, I like the idea of a service medal, a lot of organizations do it for their people so why not cadets that have stuck with the system for 5 years? It's a symbol of your dedication to something. In the military we get medals, other companies give out certificates.  I fail to see how you guys could be upset about being awarded a medal for good conduct and 5 years in the cadet system, it's a symbol of your achievement. So be proud of your achievement and put it up on your "Me" wall with the rest of your life's achievements.

Cheers

 

[GGHG_Cadet]

I respect the military long service decoration but with this cadet medal I think it should have some other criterias along with it. I'm sure there is some other criteria like there is with the Legion Medal of Excellence. If there is than I would probably be fine with it. But really I do not think that it's necessary as we already have the Legion Medal of Excellence for almost the exact same thing except the only requires 3 years.

 

[primer]

I respect the military long service decoration but with this cadet medal I think it should have some other criteria along with it. I'm sure there is some other criteria like there is with the Legion Medal of Excellence. If there is than I would probably be fine with it. But really I do not think that it's necessary as we already have the Legion Medal of Excellence for almost the exact same thing except the only requires 3 years.

I have asked about this new cadet long service medal and there is hardly any information on it. What are the criteria for it. Is it 5 years of dedicated ARMY Cadet service and a Bar for every year after 5....Only one Cadet can receive the Royal Canadian Legion Cadet Medal of Excellence per Unit. After 5 years you as an Army cadet can receive

This is no way the same as the   Royal Canadian Legion Cadet Medal of Excellence. I have read this form 142 St. Andrew's College Highland Cadet Corps web sight. The criteria is as follows

http://kilby.sac.on.ca/ActivitiesClubs/cadets/Misc/LegMedEx.html

 

[GGHG_Cadet]

I guess it isn't the same. I was thinking that the criteria for the LSM would be pratically the same as the Legion medal except for the number of years required for the LSM. Maybe there should be the same kind of cap on the number issued to each corp as there is with the Legion Medal of Excellence.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Why, exactly, does a new young Cadet, who never saw a service rifle in Cadet hands, or never attended a Reserve training exercise, learn to whine and moan about "the good old days"?

I think this is a really good point. If theres one thing I ever noticed about cadets when speaking with them or hearing their conversations it's hearing about how things used to be or the "good old days".  I don't even hear reg force soldiers with 20+ years in talk about the old days as much as I hear cadets drone on and on about it. I'm not sure what cadets used to do, I'm not how accurate the stories of the old days passed on and on are but like it was mentioned- shouldn't cadets be consintrating on the future of their program instead of complaining about a past they couldn't possibly have been a part of?

 

[THEARMYGUY]

OK.  Here I go.  I'm going to reverse my position because of the comments previously listed in this thread and I'm going to take whatever ribbing comes my way.  I have thought about the 5 year Cadet Service Medal and I believe that it IS a good idea.  If it's for retention then great.  Every cadet unit I have worked with needs to keep up their numbers.  If it's a way to keep kids interested in the programme, great.  If it is just to reward those who have stuck with it even though they thought about leaving but made another choice to stay then great.  I can only see this as a positive as you can see highlighted above.  I do hope that the cadets feel the same way and give what they can to the medal.  Others will look to those who receive it first as long serving dedicated people who they want to be like.  It sounds like a good idea to me.

Cheers!!

The Army Guy

 

[sgtatarms2004]

Ok everyone!!   just to inform you all as to the"   medal " i'am a " regional Liaison Officer " with the Army Cadet League Of Canada ( Ontario Division ) and from what i understand the idea of the medal was that of one of our league Member's and Not DND!!! i spent from 1973 to 1978 as a cadet before retireing as a cadet Lt. i also spent time as a CI for two years as well and i can understand the concern's you all have with just handing out a medal such as this to just any one that has spent only 5 years with the corps.
i do like the idea's that you all have and will bring them up at our next league meeting to our Members and see what all pertains to it. As you are all aware of the corps numbers have droped quite a bit in the last few years aspecially in the rule area's so from what i have been able to figure out at the meeting's that one of our Members thought it might be a good idea to have a medal for the cadet's that had spen't 5 years in the corps and it was brought to the table at the Cadet HQ. now the one problem being that we have Cadets joining and then after a year or so they end up quitting being it not likeing to " take orders " or for what ever reason they just end up QUITTING. Myself as a past Cadet Officer i wish they would of had something like that when i was in Cadets!! seeing first hand how much one of my corps that i take care of has droped in numbers i think it's a good idea. and the idea of a bar for every year there after is also a good one.   but keep in mind that you would only receave 3 or 4 bar's after receaveing the medal before retireing from the corps!   in my opinion i think it should be like the duke of Edinburgh's awards or the ANAVETS ( CLI ) Cadet medal of merit? were the cadets would have to compete in certain course's of compation's before they reach their 5th year as a cadet to receave such a medal. And cadets that Have one year and up to 4 years as Cadet should Receave a pin for ever year they remain in the corps up to their 5th year before they receave their medal and bars and maybe we would have stronger numbers in our corps and more Cadets takeing a stronger interist in diferent aspects of their Cadet Corps as well? But thats just my opinion? as to all the money that goes in to the purchesing of the medal's from what i understand they are paid for from the ARMY CADET LEAGUE. and DND was to over look the design of the medal's and how many go to each corps to be handed out by the co's and their staff members to the cadets.
again i will bring your concern's up to our president and Army League members at our next meeting this october in orillia and keep you informed as to any info on the 5 year medal and as to a waste of money on such medal's i myself don't think it is a wast of our money!!   if it will build up our cadet corps be it Air,Army or Sea Cadet corps and if it is for the Cadet's it's money well spent i would think don't You?
also as to the air cadets not receaveing such a medal i will talk to the Air Cadet League Members at our next AGM " Anual General Meeting " In April 2005 and find out if they will be getting one such as our's and let you know what they will be doing as to a medal?
And as to cadet camp's,rifle training and transportation DND only get's a certain amount of money from the Government to allow for such thing's. in the past few years since the cadet training camp in ipperwash closed the Government has made dermatic cuts into cadet funding i spoke with the CO of blackdown at CFB Borden at our last AGM and was informed by him that what money he receaves from the Government has to be used up at the end of that training year and be acounted for! before he can aply for more money for the next training year. and even then he is working with a limited amount of money say for instence he was to ask for say $750,000 dollars and had only spent $700,000 that year in training, transportation and material and then he ask's the government the following year for the same amount because he didn't spend the whole $750.000 he would get $50,000 less the following year from the Government the less he spends is the more the Government takes Away From the Cadet's and the Cadet Program's and thats sad cause they are our Future officer's and inlisted men and women when i was a Cadet we used 22 caliber rifle's and 7.62 FNC1A1's
and now most if not all the range's have been shut permanently and the Cadets now Have to use bb gun's or pellet gun's now come on!!! thats like sending our troop's over seas with wooden gun's to fight and saying BANG BANG Your dead!!! when the enemy is useing real AMMO and real gun's.
Now don't get me wrong! the Cadet movement isn't for enlistment into the Canadian Armed Forces ( reg forces ) or reseves even though many members of the Armed Forces consists of former Cadet's all i'am saying is that thouse Cadets that want to make the millatary their life? as a cadet how are they suppose to enjoy all that the Cadet movement has to offer if the Govenment won't put the money into the Cadet's and the Cadet movement. So if you would like to see more money spent on Cadet training and Transportation then it's up to everyone of us to lobby the Government and politition's to put more money back into the Cadet Programs so every Cadet can enjoy all the aspect's of the Cadet Programs.    
i will post a reply as to the medal's and the info pertaining to them on here ASAP Thank you!!

 

[NavyGrunt]

Now I dont have to worry about a cadet who joins the force putting that medal on their military uniforms do I? If it only goes on cadet uniforms big whoop.

 

[sgtatarms2004]

Aaron: are you a Cadet and also member of the CF? i don't have the ansewer to that one! but i would think that because the Cadet movement is a cavillian Org and is sponserd Solely By Fund raising And the Army Cadet League i would think that the Medal is a cavillian Medal Not a Military medal? even though the CF over looks the training, equipment and transportation and some funds for the Cadets. now when a cadet receaves his or her parashute wing's they are allowed to wear them on their CF uniform after graduateing basic training as well as any medal that member receves by the LT Govenor wich is the queen's represenetive before joining the CF they are allowed to wear them as well at least thats what i had been told? how true it is i'am not sure? it's been over 20 years since i was in the Canadian Forces and i would think that the rules and reg's have changed quite a bit since i was last in the Army. the 5 year Medal is for cadet's for their years of service, dedication and training with the cadet movement.
as to wearing it on a CF uniform if you would like i can find out for you and get back to you on it if you would like me too? Or you could just ask your CO and he or she should be able to tell ya as to the do's and don'ts of the Cadet 5 year medal?

 

[NavyGrunt]

I think you are correct Sgt. I was never a cadet....on second thought if they where it on their cf's I dont care either. I was just wondering what the rules were.

 

[Scott]

Interesting. I believe that if you earn medals as a member of the CF and then go into another uniformed service (RCMP, Muni Police, Fire, etc) that you can wear the medals on your dress uniform. Now, I don't know that if you earn a medal as a civvy for fire or police (There are specific medals for both) if you can wear them on your CF uniform. Wouldn't it be the same case with the cadets? I know years ago they used to award cadets the Duke of Edinborough (Sp?) medal, not sure if you could wear that on a CF uniform, I only ever saw one on a cadet.

Anyone with thoughts on this?

 

[Inch]

Scott, it all depends on the organization and what they'll accept for the wearing of awards. To my knowledge, cadet medals cannot be worn on a CF uniform, the only thing that they could wear on their uniform after leaving cadets and going PRes or reg would be jump wings but those are a CF qualification and not a cadet qual so that's why that happens.  The only non-CF medals on the Sequence for wearing of.... poster are the police, fire, etc exemplary service medals, cadet medals are not on there so that would lead me to believe that they cannot be worn, that and I've never seen anyone wearing cadet medals or quals on CF uniforms with the exception of cadet glider and power wings on air CIC officers.

Cheers

 

[Garbageman]

Cadet medals are not in the CF dress regs, therefore it's pretty simple - they cannot be worn on CF dress.  The only thing even close to an exception that I've seen is a cadet who earned the Queen's Jubilee medal as a cadet and then joined the reg force and continued to wear it (since that medal IS in the CF dress regs and is not strictly a "cadet" medal)

 

[sgt_mandal]

Wow, Queen's Jubilee? I wonder what you'd have to do for one of those.

 

[Michael OLeary]

Queen Elizabeth II Golden Jubilee Medal

http://www.dnd.ca/hr/dhh/honours_awards/engraph/honour_awards_e.asp?cat=3&Q_ID=90

CONTEXT

The Queen's Golden Jubilee medal commemorates the 50th anniversary of the accession of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second to the throne. This commemorative medal program is now closed. This medal is administered by the Chancellery of Honours at Rideau Hall.

ELIGIBILITY & CRITERIA

Canadian Forces members must be recommended by the Chief of Defence Staff to the Government of Canada. Selection is computer generated and distributed proportionally to Regular and Reserve members (including Cadet Instructors, Canadian Rangers and Honorary Positions) by component, rank, Military Occupation and years of service. CANFORGEN 024/02 CDS 017 refers.

 

[Garbageman]

Most CIC were awarded the Queen's Jubilee medal in the same manner as everyone else in the CF; a completely random lottery (love it or hate it).   Now, this doesn't include those who did something exceptional to earn the medal (for the cadet in question, she had an inordinate amount of community service time), as anyone could be nominated by anyone else.   Must have been pretty cool for her to show up at RMC as a first year and already have a medal on her!

 

[sgtatarms2004]

i spoke with our ArmyLeague office in toronto about the 5 year medal's and this is what i was informed that the reason the air and sea cadets haven't received one like ours is that when our office approached them on seeing if they would like to join us and do the same for their cadets they refused they want nothing to do with the medal!!
now as to cadet's joining the CF and wearing it on their uniform this is what i was told from the office
in NO WAY!! are they to be worn on CF greens or any CF uniform they are civilian medal's ONLY!!!
And to be worn on CADET UNIFORM'S ONLY!!!
as to them being handed out to every cadet that has put in 5 years not just any cadet will receave them. and they have to be in cadets for 5 years with no years missed mwo's and cwo's will not receave them nor will any cadet that has all kind's of awards and medal's these are for cadets that may have not
received any promotion's or the one's that didn't get a chance to go to summer camp's extra!
these are for the cadets that for some reason or some how were over looked but i stress they have to be recommended by some one be it a CI or CIC or support committee member and approved by the CO of that corps!! but like i said the cadet has to be in the corps for 5 years steady!!they can't transfer out to a different corps and then return to their old corps or they will not get one!!
as to the cost of the medal's the Army League Of Canada is paying for all the medal's for every cadet in CANADA that gets one. NOT DND and not the taxpayer's WE ARE!!! THE ARMY LEAGUE OF CANADA
It has taken our League member's 10 years to get this medal up and running so PLEASE if you receave one wear it with pride you've earned it