A Canadian Foreign Intelligence Service

[QV]

The bureaucracy, lobbyists and special interest groups will no doubt want to strangle it in committees and endless public oversight.

And those groups should be looked at through a microscope, for obvious reasons.

 

[OldSolduer]

The bureaucracy, lobbyists and special interest groups will no doubt want to strangle it in committees and endless public oversight.

The bureaucracy as we know it wouldn't be able to control it and this new agency would have a bureaucracy all its own.
Special Interest Groups are often propped up by foreign money from those that can do us harm.

 

[CBH99]

An interesting article. What Canada probably needs the most is better quality "political intelligence". And no, that doesn't refer to the abilities of Canadian politicians but to foreign governments. Undoubtedly, there are some intelligence functions carried out by GAC, whether or not being formally so designated as such, but the tendency of diplomats may be to hold such information close for their own purposes. However, the most likely target (or what should be the most likely target) of most of those intelligence operations may not be very pleased, and the USA would probably respond negatively.

From my understanding, US diplomats are very much unofficial spies, as the US State Department keeps incredibly close tabs on all foreign governments. Allied or not, and enemy.

If I remember correctly, a majority of the CIA cables that were leaked - the ones concerning personalities and assessments of foreign government officials - were mostly generated initially by State Dept.

The US may actually be happy if we had GAC do something similar with their own assessments, and share them discreetly via 5 Eyes.

 

[OldSolduer]

From my understanding, US diplomats are very much unofficial spies, as the US State Department keeps incredibly close tabs on all foreign governments. Allied or not, and enemy.

If I remember correctly, a majority of the CIA cables that were leaked - the ones concerning personalities and assessments of foreign government officials - were mostly generated initially by State Dept.

The US may actually be happy if we had GAC do something similar with their own assessments, and share them discreetly via 5 Eyes.

Every government department has an intelligence cell in it somewhere, whether they know it or not.

 

[lenaitch]

The bureaucracy as we know it wouldn't be able to control it and this new agency would have a bureaucracy all its own.
Special Interest Groups are often propped up by foreign money from those that can do us harm.

I never underestimate a well-oiled bureaucracy's ability to insidiously envelope both the great and mundane. It has more authority to say 'no' than 'yes'. If nothing else, its directing and oversight body would need ironclad secrecy legislation.

I agree, foreign influence is a problem.

Quite frankly, I'm not convinced any government would have the courage to even propose such a service once they read the tea leaves. The young urban vote, arming with opposable thumbs and a degree in gender studies or something similar, thinks we just need to show them our values and all will be solved.

 

[CBH99]

Quite frankly, I'm not convinced any government would have the courage to even propose such a service once they read the tea leaves. The young urban vote, arming with opposable thumbs and a degree in gender studies or something similar, thinks we just need to show them our values and all will be solved.

I’ve never wished a post to be more wrong, yet had it be so right

 

[OldSolduer]

I’ve never wished a post to be more wrong, yet had it be so right

Reminds me of the “militia myth” that all it takes is a few motivated amateurs to form an army….

 

[blacktriangle]

Before we add another agency or service, why not better empower our existing S&I community to fulfill the mandates they already hold? Start with taking a hard look at the considerable foreign influence in our midst, and the massive vulnerabilities within our critical & societal infrastructure…

The real problem in this country starts at the top (and no, I don’t mean Generals, Director Generals, or parts thereof…)

And yet we have no one to blame but ourselves.

 

[CBH99]

Quite frankly, I'm not convinced any government would have the courage to even propose such a service once they read the tea leaves. The young urban vote, arming with opposable thumbs and a degree in gender studies or something similar, thinks we just need to show them our values and all will be solved.

Not to sidestep too far...

But I was watching a YouTube clip about a police incident in Montreal, in which the witnesses - both of whom would very much qualify as the 'young urban vote' - weren't qualified to announce the weather on a clear & sunny day. Obviously with a man walking down the middle of the road, and a few police units following him blacked out, he wasn't just jay-walking. Attempted to flee the police while punching at them, before attempting to steal a nearby car to make a getaway.

The bad guys? The officers, apparently, for using a knee on neck while securing the suspect in handcuffs. That was it.


I'm not sure if the media cherry picked these morons or what, but they instantly came to mind when I read that.

 

[OldSolduer]

Before we add another agency or service, why not better empower our existing S&I community to fulfill the mandates they already hold? Start with taking a hard look at the considerable foreign influence in our midst, and the massive vulnerabilities within our critical & societal infrastructure…

The real problem in this country starts at the top (and no, I don’t mean Generals, Director Generals, or parts thereof…)

And yet we have no one to blame but ourselves.

Starting with the Son of God JT and work our way down ….

sorry if I’ve offended anyone

 

[CBH99]

I'm not sure if anybody can truly be offended by that. The truth just hurts sometimes.

I think even traditional Liberal supporters could/would acknowledge that JT isn't the best choice of PM when it comes to intelligence/national security matters, the same way as a traditional Conservative supporter I wouldn't say they are the best for the environment.

Nothing personal, nothing to be offended about. And a PM that doesn't seem so connected to the very countries our intelligence services seem focused on would be nice...

 

[The Bread Guy]

Necrothread bump with this just out there:

Debate over a foreign spy service for Canada influenced by allies, money: study

The decades-long debate over whether Canada should create a CIA-style foreign spy agency has been coloured by pressure from allies, budgetary restraint and internal federal rivalries, a new study reveals

www.ctvnews.ca

Link to study: Barnes, A. (2026). To spy, or not to spy: Canadian government consideration of a foreign intelligence agency, 1945–2007. Canadian Foreign Policy Journal, 1–39.

Summary:

Unlike most of its key allies, the Canadian government has not created a foreign intelligence agency to spy abroad using human sources. Newly-available archival records for the first time furnish insights into the deliberations of Canadian officials and ministers on this question. Since the early 1950s, several proposals for a foreign intelligence agency have been prepared by Canadian officials, but in all cases they failed to receive government approval. By providing an understanding of how this issue has been viewed from inside government over the past eight decades, these records will inform the ongoing public debate over the pros and cons of creating a Canadian foreign intelligence agency.

PDF of study text also attached.

 

[Blackadder1916]

From my understanding, US diplomats are very much unofficial spies, as the US State Department keeps incredibly close tabs on all foreign governments. Allied or not, and enemy.

If I remember correctly, a majority of the CIA cables that were leaked - the ones concerning personalities and assessments of foreign government officials - were mostly generated initially by State Dept.

The US may actually be happy if we had GAC do something similar with their own assessments, and share them discreetly via 5 Eyes.

With The Bread Guy's bump of this topic I noticed your response to the post I made near five years ago. I should have been clearer back then who I thought should have been one of the prime targets of a Canadian foreign political intelligence program.

"However, the most likely target (or what should be the most likely target) of most of those intelligence operations may not be very pleased, and the USA would probably respond negatively."

When I suggested that the USA would respond negatively, my intention was that the target should be the USA. My distrust of American political intentions towards Canada predates the current US administration.