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A Deeply Fractured US

I believe in self defense. I also believe that someone shouldn't tie up someone and cut off body parts as part of self defense.

Turns out, there can be exceptions to things.
Apples an oranges. You are being intellectual dishonest.
Sure. I agree. Political violence is bad. Never said it wasn't.
I dont believe you. If you agreed you would not have the many caveats you have presented.
I just said that I don't care about what kind of violence is done at the barrel of a gun in the USA. Political, domestic, gang, school, I don't care.
Then leave the conversation for those that do. We get it you don’t care.
You are acting like the USA is the only country with political polarization. Same as with mental health. Or violent video games
No, I’m acting like it’s the only country that is taking political violence to new levels.
These things only exist in the USA?
Huh? No they don’t. What is your point?
No. These are mental gymnastics people use to avoid talking about the common thread.
You have my opinion on your opinion. I think your attitude is part of the problem. You are the one using mental gymnastics to explain away what you originally posted. Not buying it.
 
You are acting like mental health only exists in the USA.

Other countries have people with mental health issues as well. We just don't allow them to have guns.
That isn't necessarily a gun issue, it's the fact that Mental health issues, poor treatment issues due to the way our health care system is, and access to firearms makes a very volatile situation.
Hmmm, you're right. I wonder if there are some controls on that....
Well depending on the state, some commercial explosives can be acquired without much, like a Drivers License.
You can also very easily make explosives at home with stuff from Home Depot, or Tractor Supply.

Thanks. I do appreciate it. I was hopeful after Sandy Hook, maybe America was ready. Nah. Was fully comfortable with a school full of kids being murdered in cold blood.

If that wasn't enough to move the needle, nothing was. And if that's the price America is willing to pay for the right to bear arms, then I respect their collective decision and will no longer waste my time feeling bad when this shit happens.
Ready for what? There are so many guns in this country and laws that are currently not enforced properly that more laws won't do anything.

Right...should I have waited? When was the good time to bring up his comments on him being okay with gun deaths as the price to pay for the second amendment?
Does it matter? He's dead, any commentary like that really serves no purpose but to make you look like an asshole.
Nope. If Americans cared they would do something about it. Collectively, I refuse.
We can't even get a Budget on time, so expecting anything in the political climate these days is hopeless. The issue is political divide. Historically "Gun Control" advocates want to ban everything and just try to inch towards that line, which leaves the "no one more inch" mentality from the NRA as the opposition.

That is a you issue, as Gang Violence - be it criminal on criminal, or criminal on innocent is awful, as is non Gun Violence against other innocents, either for Political 'reasons" or mental health reasons.
Guns are an inanimate object. Very true. But they are a very powerful inanimate object. Their should be limits on who can carry them, where they can carry them, how easy it is to access them.
Who sets the limits? I'm not trying to be obtuse, as I agree there need to be some safeguards. As I said above, with rights come responsibilities, gun owners (of which I am one) need to ensure that we push for mental health and other social service funding to ensure that criminal access to firearms is controlled, and punished.
The Carl Gustav is an inanimate object, but the military didn't like it when someone misplaced one.
It's an asset, the Military would be rather miffed if someone lost as 152 radio as well...
I can buy one down here, it is a destructive device just like a M203, - but the rounds cost a $200 tax stamp on top of the manufactures price (if not bought by a business), not a lot of folks running around with Recoilless Rifles or Grenade Launchers committing crimes though.
 
Apples an oranges. You are being intellectual dishonest.
I don't believe in absolutes.
I dont believe you. If you agreed you would not have the many caveats you have presented.
I still don't believe in absolutes. Whether you believe me is irrelevant.
Then leave the conversation for those that do. We get it you don’t care.
Of course. Thoughts and prayers.
No, I’m acting like it’s the only country that is taking political violence to new levels.
I don't think the USA is taking it to new levels. I think political gun violence is catching up to regular* gun violence.
Huh? No they don’t. What is your point?
Every country is dealing with what the USA is. Every time someone shoots up a venue, or a person in the spotlight, we get all the usual

Violent video games-other countries have this. Only the USA has the easy access to firearms

Mental health -other countries have this. Only the USA has the easy access to firearms

Political polarization-other countries have this. Only the USA has the easy access to firearms

Turns out countries can have these variables but if someone doesn't have easy access to firearms, they cannot easily shoot someone. That's the main outlier here.
You have my opinion on your opinion. I think your attitude is part of the problem. You are the one using mental gymnastics to explain away what you originally posted. Not buying it.
I don't care about that either.

You're trying to read into my reasoning for what I'm saying. I told you, and others, already, and if you cannot accept that, that's on you.

But for the record.

I never said he deserved it.

I never said political violence is acceptable.

You're getting all up in arms because I don't care.

That said, as you said, you need your space here to go over this without me repeating how much I don't care, so I'll leave it at that.

Thoughts and prayers.

*Regular in the USA, abnormal anywhere else.
 
That isn't necessarily a gun issue, it's the fact that Mental health issues, poor treatment issues due to the way our health care system is, and access to firearms makes a very volatile situation.

Well depending on the state, some commercial explosives can be acquired without much, like a Drivers License.
You can also very easily make explosives at home with stuff from Home Depot, or Tractor Supply.


Ready for what? There are so many guns in this country and laws that are currently not enforced properly that more laws won't do anything.


Does it matter? He's dead, any commentary like that really serves no purpose but to make you look like an asshole.

We can't even get a Budget on time, so expecting anything in the political climate these days is hopeless. The issue is political divide. Historically "Gun Control" advocates want to ban everything and just try to inch towards that line, which leaves the "no one more inch" mentality from the NRA as the opposition.


That is a you issue, as Gang Violence - be it criminal on criminal, or criminal on innocent is awful, as is non Gun Violence against other innocents, either for Political 'reasons" or mental health reasons.

Who sets the limits? I'm not trying to be obtuse, as I agree there need to be some safeguards. As I said above, with rights come responsibilities, gun owners (of which I am one) need to ensure that we push for mental health and other social service funding to ensure that criminal access to firearms is controlled, and punished.

It's an asset, the Military would be rather miffed if someone lost as 152 radio as well...
I can buy one down here, it is a destructive device just like a M203, - but the rounds cost a $200 tax stamp on top of the manufactures price (if not bought by a business), not a lot of folks running around with Recoilless Rifles or Grenade Launchers committing crimes though.
I would reply but I've been told I'm being a disturbance, so.
 
No idea who this guy is but shooting him in the head won't help much, I'm sure...

Live updates: Charlie Kirk shot dead at Utah university event​

Charlie Kirk, the conservative activist and founder of Turning Point USA, was giving a presentation at Utah Valley University when he was fatally shot.

 
No idea who this guy is but shooting him in the head won't help much, I'm sure...

Live updates: Charlie Kirk shot dead at Utah university event​

Charlie Kirk, the conservative activist and founder of Turning Point USA, was giving a presentation at Utah Valley University when he was fatally shot.

We’ve been discussing it in the Deeply Fractured US thread.

Basically a young (31?) conservative political celebrity. He founded Turning Point USA. Personal friend of the Trump family, very prominent political commentator with a huge audience and reach. Arguably his assassination is likely to be more politically inflammatory than would be the assassination of nearly any administration figure short of Trump himself. A big part of Kirk’s political persona has been holding debates and public discussions. He was doing that when he was killed, and ironically was talking about mass violence in the U.S. at the exact moment.
 
I enjoyed watching Charlie Kirk dismantle the inane arguments of the woke and left. Godspeed to Charlie and thoughts for the family.

Once again, we have people who see incidents in the states, through Canadian eyes. We are not comparable. We have no 2A.

Calling for unspecified actions against 2A, one must assume they are talking about confiscation.

Is that what these meddling Canadians want in the US? Mass confiscation of legally purchased, private property, held by mostly law abiding sport shooters? A failed, made in Canada solution imposed on Americans?

It may fly in Canada, with our sheeple, but it won't in the US. It's been tried with things like the assault weapons ban. An abandonded, useless, ambiguous, liberal leftist initiative. One that Barry Soetoro's AG Eric Holder, tried to reinstate on Americans, while him and Barry funneled weapons to Mexican cartels. Weapons that the US ATF purchased illegally during Project Gunnrunner and later, Operation Fast and Furious.

Besides, time and again, hoplophobes, whether Canadian or American, wrongly blame an inanimate tool for the ills of society. Instead of the low IQ morons usually at the centre of these incidents. If someone wants a gun, they'll get a gun.

What we know about the crude, homemade gun used in Shinzo Abe's assassination

Some people just need to STFU and mind their business.


 
We’ve been discussing it in the Deeply Fractured US thread.

Basically a young (31?) conservative political celebrity. He founded Turning Point USA. Personal friend of the Trump family, very prominent political commentator with a huge audience and reach. Arguably his assassination is likely to be more politically inflammatory than would be the assassination of nearly any administration figure short of Trump himself. A big part of Kirk’s political persona has been holding debates and public discussions. He was doing that when he was killed, and ironically was talking about mass violence in the U.S. at the exact moment.
Actually he had just started to talk about Transgender violence with firearms, and then was shot.

~520ft.

FBI now has suspected shooter in custody.
 
I don't believe in absolutes.
Your argument is an absolute. Guns. Your take is that every act of violence with gun is a gun problem. So yes. Yes you do.
I still don't believe in absolutes. Whether you believe me is irrelevant.
I don’t. And on that I don’t care if it is.
Of course. Thoughts and prayers.
Again. Your sarcasm on the issue isn’t doing you any favours. The fact that some of the more moderate posters here are calling you out should be an indicator.
I don't think the USA is taking it to new levels. I think political gun violence is catching up to regular* gun violence.
So if he had been stabbed in the neck with a knife you would be outraged but because it was a gun you don’t. So political violence isn’t something you care about when it’s guns. Weird.
Every country is dealing with what the USA is. Every time someone shoots up a venue, or a person in the spotlight, we get all the usual
Right but you don’t care. Got it.
Violent video games-other countries have this. Only the USA has the easy access to firearms
And?
Mental health -other countries have this. Only the USA has the easy access to firearms
And?
Political polarization-other countries have this. Only the USA has the easy access to firearms
And?
Turns out countries can have these variables but if someone doesn't have easy access to firearms, they cannot easily shoot someone. That's the main outlier here.
No that is the absolute you are putting in there. The US has a culture problem unique to the US that does not exist in countries that have easy access to guns as well.

It’s a simple argument. If you got rid of gun violence, political violence would still exist. If you got rid of political violence then guns in that sphere would not be an issue.

You are looking at a part of a problem and not the source.
I don't care about that either.

You're trying to read into my reasoning for what I'm saying. I told you, and others, already, and if you cannot accept that, that's on you.
your postings stand for themselves.
But for the record.
So you do care?
I never said he deserved it.
No one said you did. The fact still stands that he didn’t deserve it.
I never said political violence is acceptable.
Yes you did. You said there are exceptions.
You're getting all up in arms because I don't care.
No. I’m calling out your distasful position. And then trying to rationalise your very bad initial post.
That said, as you said, you need your space here to go over this without me repeating how much I don't care, so I'll leave it at that.
sure…
Thoughts and prayers.
Keep saying it. It only reinforces the fact that you took a cheap shot in the wake of the death of a man as a result of political violence.
 
The man died from the gun violence he made public statements as acceptable.

His death is tragic. It's the outcome of his advocacy. One can simultaneously say that you regret his death, and note that it's the logical conclusion of his advocacy.
 
The man died from the gun violence he made public statements as acceptable.

His death is tragic. It's the outcome of his advocacy. One can say that you regret his death, and note that it's the logical conclusion of his advocacy.
One would think.
 
The man died from the gun violence he made public statements as acceptable.

His death is tragic. It's the outcome of his advocacy. One can simultaneously say that you regret his death, and note that it's the logical conclusion of his advocacy.
I think that it would be unfortunate if the conversation around his assassination revolved around gun control and not the real issue at hand, where it is becoming more and more common to commit violent acts because you disagree with someone in the United States. Now, of course, that has always happened to a degree in America, but it is getting to the point that people are forgetting how to actually disagree with each other in a constructive fashion. And of course, some of this will always trickle into Canada.
 
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