A Deeply Fractured US

[Remius]

Jaded due to decades of the USA doing everything possible to avoid doing anything regarding gun control.

I’m sure the sentiment is shared by many. But would any second amendment changes in the US have prevented this?

This is a demonstration of how discourse cannot be had in a civilized way. Charlie Kirk is a polarizing figure but the answer to that isn’t shooting the guy for his beliefs.

The issue isn’t gun laws but rather what environment has been created that would lead anyone to do something like this and think that this is the solution to debate in what is supposed to be the country that espouses things like free speech and democracy.

 

[QV]

Yup. My fear is that with each act of politically motivated violence, someone just as unhinged on the other side inches closer to their own violent extremist act, further motivated by additional retaliatory intent. Each instance makes America more permissive of political violence overall.

Possibly. I think there are more crazy individual acts of violence coming from the left... and if the "the other side" gets to a tipping point and actually goes this route it will be a very one sided outcome.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Makes me wonder if his view on the second amendment has changed any.

Ah well.

Bluntly, it's unlikely. The frame most US conservatives hold is that that the 2A enables some level of defence against things that are going to happen anyways. They don't cleave to the belief that disarming the citizens also disarms the assholes.

 

[Altair]

I’m sure the sentiment is shared by many. But would any second amendment changes in the US have prevented this?

There are dozens of common sense gun control laws that the USA can implement. We have a lot of guns here in Canada, not nearly as much gun violence.

This is a demonstration of how discourse cannot be had in a civilized way. Charlie Kirk is a polarizing figure but the answer to that isn’t shooting the guy for his beliefs.

I save my tears for the kids.

The issue isn’t gun laws but rather what environment has been created that would lead anyone to do something like this and think that this is the solution to debate in what is supposed to be the country that espouses things like free speech and democracy.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1643977032509067272

 

[Halifax Tar]

Makes me wonder if his view on the second amendment has changed any.

Ah well.

Seriously mods ?

 

[brihard]

Reporting now that the person initially arrested was not the actual shooter and he shooter may be at large. I’ve also seen reports it was believed to be a rifle from a bit of distance.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I’m sure the sentiment is shared by many. But would any second amendment changes in the US have prevented this?

This is a demonstration of how discourse cannot be had in a civilized way. Charlie Kirk is a polarizing figure but the answer to that isn’t shooting the guy for his beliefs.

The issue isn’t gun laws but rather what environment has been created that would lead anyone to do something like this and think that this is the solution to debate in what is supposed to be the country that espouses things like free speech and democracy.

I never thought you and I could ever be so deeply on the same side.

Cheers!

 

[Remius]

There are dozens of common sense gun control laws that the USA can implement. We have a lot of guns here in Canada, not nearly as much gun violence.

You’re proving my point. It’s cultural disease. Guns just happen to be a tool that the extreme can use.

I save my tears for the kids.

Sure. Many likely are not shedding any either. If you shrug this off as meh, then that is part of the disease I mentioned above.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1643977032509067272

His comment, while a “karma” moment, still does not mean we should minimise what happened. He still didn’t deserve to be shot for debating or having his own political views that may differ from others.

 

[dapaterson]

.

 

[Altair]

You’re proving my point. It’s cultural disease. Guns just happen to be a tool that the extreme can use.

It's a America disease.

If this happened in France, or the UK, or Canada, or Japan, I feel bad. Because those places make an effort to limit gun violence and gun deaths.

America has done everything in its power to prevent any form of meaningful gun control. That's why their gun violence is off the charts.

Sure. Many likely are not shedding any either. If you shrug this off as meh, then that is part of the disease I emotion Ed above.

The USA will not do anything in regards to gun control, so I will continue to not feel bad. Same way I wouldn't feel bad if someone was repeatedly getting their car stolen while leaving the doors unlocked with the keys in the ignition.

His comment, while a “karma” moment, still does not mean we should minimise what happened. He still didn’t deserve to be shot for debating or having his own political views that may differ from others.

Please point to where I said he deserves to be shot?

I just won't shed any tears about it

 

[Halifax Tar]

I think it's interesting and enlightening that I am now seeing people, on these means, who would be ok with me being murdered because I support firearms ownership.

You're sick people.

 

[HavokFour]

Did not agree with Kirk one bit, but he didn't do anything to deserve something like that.

Coming off the heals of the murder of Ukrainian refugee, this could trigger a significant public reaction.

Let's not pretend, the GOP is only using her murder to further a narrative. They are still doing everything in their power to avoid treating the root cause of her being in the US in the first place.

How the right wing in US, Europe is weaponizing murders of Ukrainian refugees

Iryna Zarutska and her family fled Ukraine in 2022 to escape the threat of Russia’s full-scale war against her homeland, seeking safety and the promise of a new life in the United States. But that hope was shattered when she was brutally murdered in August on public transit in Charlotte, North...

kyivindependent.com

 

[Altair]

I think it's interesting and enlightening that I am now seeing people, on these means, who would be ok with me being murdered because I support firearms ownership.

You're sick people.

Now you're just putting words in my mouth.

I'm not okay with murder. But I don't care.

Americans, and specifically Charlie Kirk, have come to the conclusion that high levels of gun violence is the trade off they are willing to make in their country to avoid having meaningful forms of gun control.

I respect their collective decision and the obvious consequences of that decision and no longer feel bad when the obvious happens.

You're Canadian, I would care.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Now you're just putting words in my mouth.

I'm not okay with murder. But I don't care.

Americans, and specifically Charlie Kirk, have come to the conclusion that high levels of gun violence is the trade off they are willing to make in their country to avoid having meaningful forms of gun control.

I respect their collective decision and the obvious consequences of that decision and no longer feel bad when the obvious happens.

You're Canadian, I would care.

No your response would be something akin to 'wonder what he thinks of firearms ownership now?'.

I used to take what you said with thought and value.

 

[Remius]

It's an America disease.

It is. No amount of gun control will fix that. It requires something else.

If this happened in France, or the UK, or Canada, or Japan, I feel bad. Because those places make an effort to limit gun violence and gun deaths.

And I’m sure if you loosened gun laws our shooting rates wouldn’t change much in relation to the current rate of violence. The guy who drove a van into a family or stabbed a pile of relatives would perhaps use a gun but the violence would still happen.

America has done everything in its power to prevent any form of meaningful gun control. That's why their gun violence is off the charts.

Control the guns sure but the violence is still likely to happen. With guns or without.

The USA will not do anything in regards to gun control, so I will continue to not feel bad. Same way I wouldn't feel bad if someone was repeatedly getting their car stolen while leaving the doors unlocked with the keys in the ignition.

You are not feeling bad about the wrong thing. Do you like political violence or denounce it? A man was shot while having a debate in an open forum and someone shot him for it. You want to be jaded about gun violence? Ok. But don’t just brush off what this really is.

Please point to where I said he deserves to be shot?

I never said you did. You posted a video on his opinion on gun control. THAT doesn’t merit minimizing what happened. He did not deserve to be shot for his opinion is a general statement. While we don’t know the motivation behind the shooting I’m pretty sure it can be assumed for now given the climate.

I just won't shed any tears about it

About the political viloence? Again. Part of the disease that is permeated down there.

 

[MrWhyt]

False flag.

 

[QV]

I think it's interesting and enlightening that I am now seeing people, on these means, who would be ok with me being murdered because I support firearms ownership.

You're sick people.

Its the same ole tune whether the topic is gun rights, policies on crime, vaccine mandates... there is an architype that are pleased with people suffering who don't subscribe to their usually more radical beliefs.

 

[QV]

Did not agree with Kirk one bit, but he didn't do anything to deserve something like that.



Let's not pretend, the GOP is only using her murder to further a narrative. They are still doing everything in their power to avoid treating the root cause of her being in the US in the first place.

How the right wing in US, Europe is weaponizing murders of Ukrainian refugees

Iryna Zarutska and her family fled Ukraine in 2022 to escape the threat of Russia’s full-scale war against her homeland, seeking safety and the promise of a new life in the United States. But that hope was shattered when she was brutally murdered in August on public transit in Charlotte, North...

kyivindependent.com

Ah right, so it's some combination of her fault for being there and Trump's fault for not securing Ukraine. You have a wild perspective on that. Good luck.

 

[HavokFour]

Ah right, so it's some combination of her fault for being there and Trump's fault for not securing Ukraine. You have a wild perspective on that. Good luck.

Whoosh.

On that I am staying out of this minefield of a thread, good luck mods. I do not envy you.

 

[brihard]

BBC is reporting that Donald Trump has announced Kirk’s death on his social media platform.

Charlie Kirk dies after being shot at campus event in Utah, says President Trump

Kirk - known for holding campus debates - was at a busy outdoor event when he was shot in the neck.

www.bbc.com