• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

A Deeply Fractured US

Status
Not open for further replies.
That's assuming that the National Archives has more success with Trump than they had with Obama and Bush.

If you had posted your source about Presidents Obama and Bush ( which one? ), we could have taken a look at it.

National Archives and Records Administration (NARA), August 12, 2022 statement regarding President Obama,

The National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) assumed exclusive legal and physical custody of Obama Presidential records when President Barack Obama left office in 2017, in accordance with the Presidential Records Act (PRA). NARA moved approximately 30 million pages of unclassified records to a NARA facility in the Chicago area where they are maintained exclusively by NARA. Additionally, NARA maintains the classified Obama Presidential records in a NARA facility in the Washington, DC, area. As required by the PRA, former President Obama has no control over where and how NARA stores the Presidential records of his Administration.
 
I would disagree, especially when the debate concerns a public person and is being held in public. And especially when there seems to a constant drip of selective leaks from the inspectorate.
Sorry to be so rudely blunt, but your disagreement simply reflects a profound lack of understanding of the way criminal law and investigations work. The investigation is ongoing. Until and unless they’re ready to indict and prosecute, there is an ongoing need to protect confidential human sources, cooperating witnesses, and other ongoing investigative steps. That affidavit may identify who came forward- someone whose testimony may be later required in court. It may identify who so far has and who has not given sworn testimony to a grand jury, and by extension who may subsequently be sought as a witness. It may identify locations and premises that could be searched still. It might identify ongoing PEN registers, wiretaps, or undercover operations. It could burn ongoing surveillance. It could expose evidence sought but not yet recovered that could be destroyed if known.

None of this is any material way different from other criminal investigations with a covert element. Sealed affidavits are both utterly and boringly normal, and essential to succesful investigations.

The fact that Trump had a big tantrum about his place being searched and announced the warrant to the world doesn’t mean he now gets to demand the investigation be blown open and everything revealed to him. Due process means, he like anyone else, has rights. Anyone else would similarly have to wait and see (though of course he could also ask his lawyers to file an argument to unseal the affidavit- something I don’t believe has happened).

In the meantime, the proper course of Justice demands that investigators and prosecutors be allowed to do their job, and that the status of a potential suspect not be allowed to obstruct their investigative efforts. If charges are laid, the affidavit will be unsealed. If the matter is concluded without charges, there will be little remaining argument to leave the bulk of the affidavit sealed. But so long as it contributes to be a viable criminal investigation, the confidentiality of that affidavit is essential to the proper course of justice.
 
Last edited:
Sorry to be so rudely blunt, but your disagreement simply reflects a profound lack of understanding of the way criminal law and investigations work. The investigation is ongoing. Until and unless they’re ready to indict and prosecute, there is an ongoing need to protect confidential human sources, cooperating witnesses, and other ongoing investigative steps. That affidavit may identify who came forward- someone whose testimony may be later required in court. It may identify who so far has and who has not given sworn testimony to a grand jury, and by extension who may subsequently be sought as a witness. It may identify locations and premises that could be searched still. It might identify ongoing PEN registers, wiretaps, or undercover operations. It could burn ongoing surveillance. It could expose evidence sought but not yet recovered that could be destroyed if known.

None of this is any material way different from other criminal investigations with a covert element. Sealed affidavits are both utterly and boringly normal, and essential to succesful investigations.

The fact that Trump had a big tantrum about his place being searched and announced the warrant to the world doesn’t mean he now gets to demand the investigation be blown open and everything revealed to him. Due process means, he like anyone else, has rights. Anyone else would similarly have to wait and see (though of course he could also ask his lawyers to file an argument to unseal the affidavit- something I don’t believe has happened).

In the meantime, the proper course of Justice demands that investigators and prosecutors be allowed to do their job, and that the status of a potential suspect not be allowed to obstruct their investigative efforts. If charges are laid, the affidavit will be unsealed. If the matter is concluded without charges, there will be little remaining argument to leave the bulk of the affidavit sealed. But so long as it contributes to be a viable criminal investigation, the confidentiality of that affidavit is essential to the proper course of justice.

Blunt is fine.

Justice demands that investigators and prosecutors be allowed to do their job

Agreed.

Justice also demands that the person being investigated be presumed innocent until found guilty in a court of law.
 
Blunt is fine.



Agreed.

Justice also demands that the person being investigated be presumed innocent until found guilty in a court of law.
Yes- that means there shall not be legal sanction in the form of punishment for an offence absent a conviction. It doesn’t exempt you from being subject to public opinion.

Not getting to read a sealed affidavit is not a criminal sanction. His right to be presumed innocent is not at stake here. If in fact any charges result, and if those charges include him personally being indicted (by no means a given), he’ll have all the same rights as anyone to be presumed innocent in court and to have the state bear the burden of proving its case.
 
and Trumps papers are still in process

Right.

Presidential historian: Way Trump obtained, kept classified material is unprecedented​


"We have never in history seen a former president take ultra-classified documents, stick them in his basement, loosely watched by government standards, and with the shadow of we still don’t know what his motive was," Beschloss said on NBC's "Meet the Press."
The National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) assumed exclusive legal and physical custody of Obama Presidential records when President Barack Obama left office in 2017, in accordance with the Presidential Records Act (PRA).

Mr. Trump has NEVER been given that benefit from the day he won the election......just go back and read this thread.

Someone else put it this way,

That's pretty rich, being posted in a Trump bukkake-fest.
 
Unless there's something that prevent Donald Trump from running in 2024 I don't think the FBI has done the Democrats any favours. I understand the need to protect information but Trump will be able to run pretty hard on this
 
Unless there's something that prevent Donald Trump from running in 2024 I don't think the FBI has done the Democrats any favours. I understand the need to protect information but Trump will be able to run pretty hard on this
Trump is unelectable, he just doesn't believe it.
A large segment of Republicans won't vote for him - I for sure won't.
 
Mr. Trump has NEVER been given that benefit from the day he won the election......just go back and read this thread.
Benefit of the doubt from the court, not public opinion.

Guy whips up the masses to try and get Clinton arrested, spent his presidency in ad hoc attacks against oponnents, and now him and his chronies are whipping up people against the FBI.

He's been a greasy grifter since day one, who was born with a silver spoon that tried to make out like he was a self made man. He's consistently been a bully and braggart, so not sure what he's done to earn the benefit of the doubt, as this kind of blatant disrespect for NatSec laws is entirely consistent with how does things like rules don't apply to him.
 
Guy whips up the masses to try and get Clinton arrested

Clinton did that to herself. There is no dispute that she had an unauthorized unsecured email server, that some classified materials were passed through it, and that information which might have been relevant to an investigation was destroyed. Those facts were widely publicized, not least by the FBI. Blame them.
 
As a Republican, what do you think of the Lincoln Project's pronouncement regarding these primaries/ the GOP?
"Tonight, the nation marks the end of the Republican Party. What remains shares the name and branding of the traditional GOP, but is in fact an authoritarian nationalist cult dedicated only to Donald Trump"

I will assume you are talking about the above?

Honestly I am very concerned for the country at this point given the way things have gone.
 
"Tonight, the nation marks the end of the Republican Party. What remains shares the name and branding of the traditional GOP, but is in fact an authoritarian nationalist cult dedicated only to Donald Trump"

I will assume you are talking about the above?

Honestly I am very concerned for the country at this point given the way things have gone.
You assumed correctly.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top