A Deeply Fractured US

[lenaitch]

seen this. Accurate?

Yes, ICE Is Law Enforcement—But Their Authority Has Limits You Need To Know

ICE is federal law enforcement with arrest authority—but ICE agents can't enter your home without a judge's warrant. Learn what ICE can and cannot do.

allaboutlawyer.com

also this

View attachment 97695

and this

View attachment 97696

again accurate?

Agree, but even before that, I am unclear (and don't expect an answer, it's just part of boxes to be ticked in the investigation of events such as this), is scope of authority for ICE to do things like make a vehicle stop, demand identification, make an arrest, etc. No doubt they would have to be in furtherance of whatever statute they are enforcing. If it is anything like up here, if you are charged with obstructing a peace officer in the lawful performance of their duty, if it turns out that what they were doing was not, in fact, lawful, the charge would likely be tossed.

You reject an official government document, out of hand, but accept the word of a former cartel member as proof? It sounds like your opposition is based, not on proof, but on your distaste for the current administration. Your assertion that there is no such thing as a bounty list, based on dubious sources, is not fact, it's opinion.

I posted some stats awhile back, generated by AI and was roundly pillored for it. It appears AI is not a respected source for use here.

Federal law trumps state law. Newsom, et al, can pass all the laws they want. Feds can effectively ignore them.

Bottom line, at the moment, no law exists stopping LEO from wearing face coverings. So, they can continue to wear them. People might not like it, can pick their favorite windmill to tilt at, and raise unholy hell. Doesn’t make a lick of difference.

And before I get too involved, that's where I stand. Take it for what it's worth. I'm out.

I'm certainly no US Constitutional expert, but I don't think the 'federal law trumps state law' is as applicable as it is up here. Their Constitution establishes very clear lanes between state and federal jurisdiction, and if a particular area is not addressed or unclear, it defaults to the state; whereas up here it would default to the federal government.

A state can make a law about law enforcement face covering, but it would only apply to state/county/municipal personnel. In that sense, it would not apply to federal agents, but that is not the same as 'trumping' the state. Similarly, the federal government can pass a law that says all law enforcement must wear pink tutus, but it would only apply to federal LEOs.

 

[FSTO]

There's more to it than that.

Also debatable are the risks of interfering with law enforcement. The reasonable expectations of restraint. Whether it's acceptable to nullify law enforcement. Whether it's politically wise or unwise to nullify law enforcement. What effect overwrought emotions or mere political ideology are having on the conduct of people on both sides. Etc.

The shooting might be wrongful, or it might be tragic. Most people have already decided, but there is not uniform agreement.

I'm almost always in the position of arguing for more police restraint and that authorities ought to cut dissidents more slack; it's unusual for me to be providing support for blunt force law enforcement and what has me over that fence is the peculiarity that what has set it all in motion is attempts to nullify federal law on a massive scale. I've (long ago) argued that the tragedies at Waco and Ruby Ridge were avoidable and ought to have been avoided. There are, conversely, people who believe everything the government did in those two cases was reasonable and necessary, and that everything the government is doing now is unreasonable and unnecessary. My point isn't to litigate all these and more; my point is that it's often easy to argue authorities ought to have conducted themselves differently and also that people on the wrong side of the law are responsible for outcomes.

No. That meathead should be charged with 2nd degree murder full stop. He was damn lucky he didn’t put a round into his partner who tried to open the car door.
The ICE crew from Kristy all the way down to that agent are out of control and have no business being in charge of wellhead security on the North Slope of Alaska let alone LARPING about the USA being class one assholes.
You can quote all the US Laws you want but that doesn’t hide the fact this administration couldn’t give two shits about laws, rights or even common decency. The whole crew needs to be perped walked down Pennsylvania Ave as they are sent to Gitmo to be measured for orange coveralls.

 

[HavokFour]

Minnesota is moving ahead, FBI be damned.

Minnesota launches own probe of ICE shooting after FBI freezes out locals

Hennepin County Attorney Mary Moriarty and Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison announced the investigation after the FBI took sole ownership of investigating the shooting.

www.seattletimes.com

 

[Brad Sallows]

You can quote all the US Laws

Well, yeah, they're the relevant laws.

 

[FSTO]

Well, yeah, they're the relevant laws.

Don't seem to be for this administration.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Don't seem to be for this administration.

If that were the case, they wouldn't bother arguing their points in the courts at all. Even arguing for due process has a process that takes time and has to be exhausted.

 

[FSTO]

If that were the case, they wouldn't bother arguing their points in the courts at all. Even arguing for due process has a process that takes time and has to be exhausted.

Colour me not surprised when this agent isn't even charged.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Colour me not surprised when this agent isn't even charged.

Maybe. I regularly check headlines and occasionally read articles at reason.com, and police-related abuses (their, meaning typically libertarian, view) are a common topic there. Sometimes charges are filed and stick, but more often something like qualified immunity governs the outcome. Eventually I expect such an article about this shooting to show up there, whichever way it falls.

 

[Good2Golf]

Colour me not surprised when this agent isn't even charged.

Good’s spouse will be charged with felony murder long before Officer Ross ever sees a charge laid against him, as some have begun to make the case that the spouse’s dismounting of the vehicle resulted in Officer Ross having to sweep in front of the car and then admitting fault for Good’s death afterwards.

 

[McG]

The incident was also not an aberration; it was one occurrence of a trend.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2010033252145258947

https://www.wsj.com/us-news/videos-show-how-ice-vehicle-stops-can-escalate-to-shootings-caf17601

 

[Fishbone Jones]

What data would full a fourth column, “deaths under deportation custody?”

I really wouldn't know G2G. Never gave it any thought and don't plan too. Battle lines are hardening here and I really can't be bothered anymore getting into the mud. If I had one wish, it would be that we would be able to discuss our own governments malfeasance. Our own ridiculous PM. Our trade woes. The way we're losing our Canadian identity, homes, employment, retirement savings, farms, industry. I wish we would put as much emotion and fervour into discussions of our own clowns and circus as we do pilloring someone else's head of state and policies. But that’s being Canadian I guess. Slagging the shit out of some other country, bitching and moaning. That way, we can ignore ourselves, drowning out the sound of our own demise, not thinking about us circling the drain, figuring when it's over we'll come out the other side unscathed and unaffected into our maple syrup utopia.

Sorry G2G, I know that doesn’t answer your question, but there it is.

 

[The Bread Guy]

The incident was also not an aberration; it was one occurrence of a trend.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2010033252145258947

https://www.wsj.com/us-news/videos-show-how-ice-vehicle-stops-can-escalate-to-shootings-caf17601

Expected supporting narrative: Something, something, break eggs, make omelette, something …

OP edit to add intro phrase

 

[Fishbone Jones]

The incident was also not an aberration; it was one occurrence of a trend.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2010033252145258947

https://www.wsj.com/us-news/videos-show-how-ice-vehicle-stops-can-escalate-to-shootings-caf17601

Simple math. The more agents and provocateurs you pack into a small area, the greater the opportunity for incidents. The fact that many are paid, professional agitators doesn't help.

 

[McG]

Something, something, break eggs, make omelette, something …

Tou might want to edit that. It is not clear if you are being sarcastic, or if you are endorsing the occasional killing of innocents to achieve ICE goals.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Tou might want to edit that. It is not clear if you are being sarcastic, or if you are endorsing the occasional killing of innocents to achieve ICE goals.

The former, for sure - thx for that!

 

[FSTO]

I really wouldn't know G2G. Never gave it any thought and don't plan too. Battle lines are hardening here and I really can't be bothered anymore getting into the mud. If I had one wish, it would be that we would be able to discuss our own governments malfeasance. Our own ridiculous PM. Our trade woes. The way we're losing our Canadian identity, homes, employment, retirement savings, farms, industry. I wish we would put as much emotion and fervour into discussions of our own clowns and circus as we do pilloring someone else's head of state and policies. But that’s being Canadian I guess. Slagging the shit out of some other country, bitching and moaning. That way, we can ignore ourselves, drowning out the sound of our own demise, not thinking about us circling the drain, figuring when it's over we'll come out the other side unscathed and unaffected into our maple syrup utopia.

Sorry G2G, I know that doesn’t answer your question, but there it is.

View attachment 97710

So today I decided to download the TSN “Canada’s Sports Leader” app. Games being shown were NFL Wild Card and 4 NCAA matches (1 men’s basketball 1 women’s basketball and 2 women’s hockey games. No USports or Major Junior Hockey games. To me, this just a symptom of the lack of support for Canada displayed by Canada’s corporations.

I’ve outlined this in my Substack.

Lazy

Why Canadians ignore our own stories

open.substack.com

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Tou might want to edit that. It is not clear if you are being sarcastic, or if you are endorsing the occasional killing of innocents to achieve ICE goals.

How long have been waiting for a sarcasm emoji?

 

[Brad Sallows]

Before the 2016 election, this (reposted) article was written and published. For those who care to understand some of the parts of the Trump administration that are not Trump himself, on their own terms, it's a long read, and it's the perspective of someone associated with the Claremont Institute. (The "Claremonsters" are not ideologically congruent with the nat-cons.)

 

[Fishbone Jones]

So today I decided to download the TSN “Canada’s Sports Leader” app. Games being shown were NFL Wild Card and 4 NCAA matches (1 men’s basketball 1 women’s basketball and 2 women’s hockey games. No USports or Major Junior Hockey games. To me, this just a symptom of the lack of support for Canada displayed by Canada’s corporations.

I’ve outlined this in my Substack.

Lazy

Why Canadians ignore our own stories

open.substack.com

Good read. Once I figured out how to get in there.

 

[PrairieFella]

That country will break apart before it ever annexes us. We’ll need a con plan for the inevitable refugees headed north if that ever happens.

Theres no way our asylum system could ever handle it. It would implode with the first 500,000 that jump the border.