A "Why" Dress Thread split from OCdt Speaks at Freedom Rally

[Haggis]

I think that most troops still buy nametapes because they dont want to look new. It took me five years before I got issued nametapes, after requesting them more times then I can count.

TANGENT
This phenomenon is not confined to the CAF. When I joined my LEA it took me forever to get nametapes for my body armour. So, I ordered my own from CP Gear. Both sets arrived the same day.
TANGENT ENDS.

 

[dimsum]

One of my SLP coursemates was a submariner. He was a little "off"

Isn't that redundant info?

peer pressure to buy special CANEX DEU belt buckles with branch/trade/etc insignia anyone?

I always thought that was ridiculous, like people won't know right off the bat with your trade insignia on your uniform.

 

[stoker dave]

Ok, so I am going to join in with my perspective.

As I have said earlier, its been decades since I wore a uniform and now typically work at construction sites. So my experience may or may not be relevant.

At the construction sites, PPE is specified. Not wearing the PPE is a firing offence. However, everyone has the right to a safe work place. Anyone can stop work if conditions are unsafe. So what does that mean? It means while you have to wear the PPE, accommodations have to be made for temperature. If the PPE leaves you either freezing or risking heat stroke, you have the right to stop work. Any manager that does not recognize these conditions will likely be fired. So if its cold, we make sure everyone has warm weather gear that meets the PPE requirements. If its hot, we provide water, encourage water breaks, cooling breaks, whatever it takes.

There is NO reason for a workplace to ever be unsafe. And risk of hypo/hyper thermic is a safety issue.

So I remain completely perplexed at how there can be an unsafe work place because someone ordered the wrong dress to be worn. That is a safety violation. Can someone help me understand?

 

[dimsum]

Mods, should we split this?

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Mods, should we split this?

Done

 

[OldSolduer]

This is something that irks me to no end in this organization. It speaks to a type of institutional bullying that shitty leadership gets away with because junior members are usually too often afraid of putting a target on their back (real or perceived), or rocking the boat when they just want to be the grey person and get their package signed off to move on with their careers.

I have certainly fallen victim to it a few times in the first half of my career, although I have heard rumours that it still exists even in the highest levels of the organization (peer pressure to buy special CANEX DEU belt buckles with branch/trade/etc insignia anyone?).

I have no problems buying your own kit if it's completely optional and one does it on their own initiative. I pay out of pocket for better quality sea boots and insoles because I find it completely worth it when standing on your feet for 12+ hours in a day. But forcing members to pay out of pocket for some novelty that only serves to placate the OCD of leadership when the system has failed to provide it in a timely manner is not on.

So an NCO that's doing his/her job is bullying? Shitty leadership? Please enlighten me.

Insoles are one thing - I agree with you there. Good footwear is essential?

 

[dimsum]

Hoods. Guys getting jacked up for wearing hoods. Hoods on the jackets we were issued…

I mean, this is the same organization that views putting hands in pockets as bringing about the end of Western Democracy and our way of life...

Or DEU shirts with breast (and hip, for the tunic) pockets that we aren't allowed to put stuff in.

 

[mariomike]

I mean, this is the same organization that views putting hands in pockets as bringing about the end of Western Democracy and our way of life...

Reminds me of something I read by a 20-year-old second lieutenant with the 103rd Infantry Division. He was wounded while fighting in Alsace, and was awarded the Bronze Star and Purple Heart.

"Eisenhower had a reputation among his troops as an eminently decent man, friendly and sympathetic, an admiration that Ike elevated even further, by having the bravado to casually rest his hands inside his pocket and "violate the sacred Army injunction."

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I mean, this is the same organization that views putting hands in pockets as bringing about the end of Western Democracy and our way of life...

Or DEU shirts with breast (and hip, for the tunic) pockets that we aren't allowed to put stuff in.

Yeah. Why put the nice comfy fleece in the pocket, if we are not allowed to warm our hands there?

 

[dimsum]

Yeah. Why put the nice comfy fleece in the pocket, if we are not allowed to warm our hands there?

Sadomasochistic tendencies?

 

[Pelorus]

So an NCO that's doing his/her job is bullying? Shitty leadership? Please enlighten me.

Insoles are one thing - I agree with you there. Good footwear is essential?

Sorry for not being clear, I was specifically referring to the example that was brought up earlier of a member being ordered to pay out of pocket for something like a different colour variation of name tape so that they match the rest of the group.

If that person decides on their own accord without being pressured by superiors to pay out of pocket so that they blend in with their peers, sure, whatever. Being ordered to pay out of pocket for something so insignificant for the sake of uniformity because the institution can't procure name tags in a timely manner is another thing entirely IMO.

I agree good footwear is essential. The new sea boots are certainly good enough. I just personally find the difference after a long day at sea on your feet between the issued boots and a civvy boot/insole to be worth the money. Fortunately nobody in the Navy seems to really make a fuss about members wearing civvy boots so long as they are broadly similar to the issued ones (i.e. black, safety toe, etc.).

 

[Kilted]

Sorry for not being clear, I was specifically referring to the example that was brought up earlier of a member being ordered to pay out of pocket for something like a different colour variation of name tape so that they match the rest of the group.

If that person decides on their own accord without being pressured by superiors to pay out of pocket so that they blend in with their peers, sure, whatever. Being ordered to pay out of pocket for something so insignificant for the sake of uniformity because the institution can't procure name tags in a timely manner is another thing entirely IMO.

I agree good footwear is essential. The new sea boots are certainly good enough. I just personally find the difference after a long day at sea on your feet between the issued boots and a civvy boot/insole to be worth the money. Fortunately nobody in the Navy seems to really make a fuss about members wearing civvy boots so long as they are broadly similar to the issued ones (i.e. black, safety toe, etc.).

When I first joined many years ago I had to find the missing pieces to my DEU's on eBay, because my unit couldn't provide them. I needed up with a silver trade badge (I don't know how old that would be). When I was promoted to Cpl I had to buy the DEU badges off eBay because my unit didn't have them. I even emailed logistic unicorps asking for them and they told me they weren't allowed to send them. Took me over a year to get a second slip-on, the next day I had my CSM rip my rank off on parade in order to promote someone else. I narrowly avoided having to show up for parade without a slip-on. All of this was over ten years ago, most of these issues have been fixed.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Yeah. Why put the nice comfy fleece in the pocket, if we are not allowed to warm our hands there?

Because 'Tease the Soldier'

 

[CBH99]

TANGENT
This phenomenon is not confined to the CAF. When I joined my LEA it took me forever to get nametapes for my body armour. So, I ordered my own from CP Gear. Both sets arrived the same day.
TANGENT ENDS.

That’s just how it works no matter where one gets hired

 

[CBH99]

I think that most troops still buy nametapes because they dont want to look new. It took me five years before I got issued nametapes, after requesting them more times then I can count.

How on Earth cab making 2 name tapes for a new member take 5 bloody years??

If that’s the case why not simplify our end of the operation & unit just order them all from CP gear upon enrolment

 

[daftandbarmy]

TANGENT
This phenomenon is not confined to the CAF. When I joined my LEA it took me forever to get nametapes for my body armour. So, I ordered my own from CP Gear. Both sets arrived the same day.
TANGENT ENDS.

Pffftt....

When I joined a Highland Regiment reserve unit as a brand new, Class A, 2Lt I was expected to be grateful for the opportunity to shell out immediately for a silver cap badge that, in today's currency, would probably run to $300: a month's pay or so I would guess. The OR's cap badges were on issue, Officers and SNCOs had to purchase theirs, and still do I believe.

Then there's the mess kit, brogues etc, all at your own expense.

This is still the case in most reserve units, of course.

 

[RangerRay]

Wow. Back in the 90’s, We could wear any combo of hat/coat/glove in the field that made me comfortable. We still whinged about not being able to use non-issued kit that was better quality or more comfortable.

Makes me appreciate my uniformed civy job that lets me wear any (operational) hat/glove/coat combo that’s comfortable.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

This is the Somalia scapegoat Brown?

Affirm. Cornwallis was 32 years ago this coming summer for our platoon...

 

[Haggis]

Pffftt....

When I joined a Highland Regiment ......
This is still the case in most reserve units, of course.

I hear you! Being a member of the oatmeal savages is expensive. Brogues, hose, kilts, skeahn dhu, ties, cap badges shoulder titles and, of course, mess kit which you may wear once a year. Sr NCOs used to get $300 upon promotion to Sgt to subsidize their mandatory regimental bling. I beleive that ended around 1985.

 

[FJAG]

Pffftt....

When I joined a Highland Regiment reserve unit as a brand new, Class A, 2Lt I was expected to be grateful for the opportunity to shell out immediately for a silver cap badge that, in today's currency, would probably run to $300: a month's pay or so I would guess. The OR's cap badges were on issue, Officers and SNCOs had to purchase theirs, and still do I believe.

Then there's the mess kit, brogues etc, all at your own expense.

This is still the case in most reserve units, of course.

The Camerons issued me with pretty much everything except a skeahn-dhu and mess kit. Never did get the skeahn-dhu and wore my artillery mess kit to the mess dinners for four years much to the heartburn of the regimental senate. I think they all knew though that my tenure with them would end with my call to the bar.