according to forces.gc.ca the difference between officers and NCM's is...

[rz350]

from http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/lf/English/11_3_3.asp
"Can I choose to serve as an officer or an NCO?
Serving as an officer or as a non-commissioned member (NCM) is partly your choice and based on your education and your leadership ability. Being an NCM takes leadership and the ability to execute plans. "

I couldnt resist

 

[Trinity]

1) it says NCM.. not NCO
- so NCM = MCpl, Cpl, Pte.

2) exercise leadership and and execute plans

Yes... because the Officers and NCO's have created the plans and now you must follow our leadership!  ;D

My favourite is this one

Can I go on a peacekeeping mission?

Yes

 

[rifleman]

Actually NCM is Pte -> CWO

 

[Trinity]

possibly

but warrent OFFICER
Master warrent Officer
and Chief warrent Officer

from what I have been taught are NON commissioned officers
which is definitely different than NCM.

 

[Timmy!]

What issue on NCM NCO deal always sat in my mind for a long time. Can someone else clear the air? Sorry to jake the thread.

 

[aesop081]

NCM includes all ranks from Pte to CWO

NCO includes all ranks from Cpl to CWO

 

[Trinity]

What issue on NCM NCO deal always sat in my mind for a long time. Can someone else clear the air? Sorry to jake the thread.

I agree.. its a good question.

If you're a Pte - Sgt.. you probably don't care.
If you're a WO and above.. I'm sure they'll make it quite clear to you!  ;D

 

[logos]

rz350,

Whats your point? Are you implying that NCMs do not lead and execute plans?   

To clarify: there are two distinct areas a person in the Army falls under: NCM or Officer
- An NCM can be a NCO (jr=Cpl. and Mcpl    sr= Sgt to CWO)

Also, the "Warrant Officer" class is distinct with in the NCOs, but they are still senior NCOs. While they do not technically hold a Commission, they are granted a "Warrant" from the Queen. (Unlike in the US where they have a full commissions)

 

[17thRecceSgt]

NCM includes all ranks from Pte to CWO

NCO includes all ranks from Cpl to CWO

I thought it was something like this and a good discussion on SLC.

What came out of that was...

"All NCOs are NCMs, but not all NCMs are NCOs"

NCOs are broken down into Jr NCOs (Cpl, MCpl), Snr NCOs (Sgt only) and Warrant Officers (WO, MWO, CWO).  Hence why it is called the "Warrant Officers and Sergeants Mess" vice "Snr NCOs Mess".

IIRC, our Syndicate WO on SLC told us when he was a WO in the Reg Frce and Pl WO , at an O Gp, one of the Officers asked all the Snr NCOs to stay behind.  He got up to leave and when the Major said "WO Bloggins, where are you going?" he replied "Well sir, you said Snr NCOs, and that would be the Sgt's, not us Warrant Officers."

I think the misued term is "Senior NCM".  Whats that, the Cpl with 28 years in, or the MWO, or...

My spare change on the issue...

MRM

 

[17thRecceSgt]

Also, the "Warrant Officer" class is distinct with in the NCOs, but they are still senior NCOs. While they do not technically hold a Commission, they are granted a "Warrant" from the Queen. (Unlike in the US where they have a full commissions)

I may be wrong, but CWOs receive some sort of scroll when they get promoted to CWO.  I don't think it is a "Commission Scroll" per say, but I have seen it and can't recall what it is called. 

Certainly there is a CWO on here that can set it straight.

MRM

 

[eurowing]

MRM, you nailed it.  I despise the term Sr NCM.

Food for thought

When you commission something you put it into service.

When you warrant something, you guarantee it

 

[rz350]

rz350,

Whats your point? Are you implying that NCMs do not lead and execute plans?   

I'm mostly implying that the forces.gc.ca website needs to be proof read. (since all ranks require leadership and execute plans)

Moreso, I was just trying to spin the words to say that officers dont require the above stated skills, and only NCM/O's did. (since it says nothing about Officers requiring leadership or the ability to execute plans )

Just playing with words, no "real" implications (as in I know that every rank of the CF has its role and place and they all do top notch work)

 

[pronto]

"Well sir, you said Snr NCOs, and that would be the Sgt's, not us Warrant Officers."

Great story, I laughed my arse off, but probably apocryphal. No WO I ever met would embarass an officer in an O-Group that way... I sure wouldn't have, and I was not particularly bright, of course, neither were my officers  

 

[The_Falcon]

Also, the "Warrant Officer" class is distinct with in the NCOs, but they are still senior NCOs. While they do not technically hold a Commission, they are granted a "Warrant" from the Queen. (Unlike in the US where they have a full commissions)

No, Warrant Officers in the US military hold WARRANTS (if they held a COMMISSION they would be Commissioned Officers) they  from the President and are are technical specialists in their field (ie US Army Helicopter Pilots), as opposed to Commissioned Officers who are generalists.

There have already been quite a few discussions on what is considered an NCO, NCM, WO etc. in the CF, and this thread should probably be locked before it spirals out of control.

 

[George Wallace]

It's been out of control from the very first post.  That is why it is now here.

 

[Franko]

and this one is now locked.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

MRM, you nailed it.  I despise the term Sr NCM.

Food for thought

When you commission something you put it into service.

When you warrant something, you guarantee it

If your going to use my by-line, please quote it properly, as seen below. ;D