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Aerospace Control Officers-AEC [merged]

Jorkapp

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AlwaysWaiting said:
I've looked through the various forums and I've got part of an idea of what is upcoming. I recently was told that my file was selected from the competition list and will be receiving an offer shortly, since I'm bypassing BMOQ what is the next step? I know trades training for the AEC typically occurs in July and January, however I'm skeptical that I'd be able to be loaded on the course this short notice and I'm under the impression there is pre-course work to complete regardless. That leaves OJT as an option, or is there another course I'm missing that needs completion? I remember when I was in the Navy we had Naval Environmental Trg, is there an equivalent? I'm trying to figure this out to A) see if I'm going to be waiting a while for the offer (til say a week before an environmental course opens up) and B) the likelihood of going immediately onto OJT near my family to begin studying/DL/anything else required.

Any illumination into the matter would be appreciated!
If there's anyone still using this thread, would you be able to go through the general taskings, prep work, officership courses etc. that would take place on OJT prior to trades training for AEC?

Since you're bypassing BMOQ, you'll be reporting to a unit for OJT until your AEC course starts. OJT near family can happen - I've seen many hard air trades do OJT with CFRC's and PRes units to be close to family. If you get an offer, push a request through the CFRC to be posted near your current location. Do bear in mind, it is only a request, 2CAD has every right to say no.

The RCAF has the Air Force Officer Development courses as the Environmental Training. AFOD 1-4 are all DL courses, and AFOD 5 is residential. As a 2Lt on OJT, AFOD 1 and 2 are good courses to get under your belt. AFOD 3-5 are more geared towards qualified Captains. Talk to your unit training rep about getting put on AFOD courses.

Also for pan-CAF officer development, there is the CAF Junior Officer Development (CAFJOD) courses - formerly the OPME's. All CAFJOD courses are available on DLN for self-nomination. If you did any OPME's while you were in the Navy, you can apply them towards completion of CAFJOD.
 
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Thanks for the information! That's exactly what I was looking for, I asked the question to CFRC about OJT location and although they said the offer should be "any day now" they also indicated that OJT is done at the unit where you will be conducting your occupational training (in this case Cornwall). With that said you mentioned you can push/ask for an OJT posting more local. How would this process look? I've emailed the file manager in charge of my file with the request, I'm wondering if this is the proper process or is there anything else that needs/should be done. If it turns out that it's declined and there's nothing further I can do so be it, I just wanted to be sure I've turned over all the stones I can.
 

Jorkapp

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AlwaysWaiting said:
Thanks for the information! That's exactly what I was looking for, I asked the question to CFRC about OJT location and although they said the offer should be "any day now" they also indicated that OJT is done at the unit where you will be conducting your occupational training (in this case Cornwall). With that said you mentioned you can push/ask for an OJT posting more local. How would this process look? I've emailed the file manager in charge of my file with the request, I'm wondering if this is the proper process or is there anything else that needs/should be done. If it turns out that it's declined and there's nothing further I can do so be it, I just wanted to be sure I've turned over all the stones I can.

Unfortunately, I don't know the fine details of how to push such a request through a CFRC. I'd imagine that going through your file manager is the way to go. If not, once you've accepted the offer and re-enrolled, you could push such a request to 2 CAD / AF AEC Trg through your CoC at your first unit.
 

overwatch

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Hello everyone,

I'm doing further research on what occupations I would like to pursue in the Air Force/Navy. AEC is one of my top choices, however, I had questions that I hope the forum can help answer. My questions are the following (broken down into numbered format so it is easier to read):

1. How does rank progression work in the Air Force? I understand that further training and number of years spent serving are the primary factors that matter but I was wondering what the general timeline is like to reach Captain and beyond.

2. If I fail professional training, will I be let go from the Air Force? Also, what if I have AEC as my only listed occupation choice in this scenario?

3. How long is the years of service for the AEC occupation?
 

edlabonte

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1.  BMOQ + Bachelor's Degree + 2nd LT,  2LT + Occupational Function Point = LT,  LT + 2 Years = Capt.  Promotion beyond Capt really varies because that's when they start looking at your annual reviews, education, language profile, and other things at a promotion board.  Promotion to Maj usually takes a long time to get but promotions beyond major seem to get shorter and shorter the higher you go.
Reaching OFP varies by occupation, Pilot is 3+ years to reach wings standard, ACSO is 1.5+, AEC varies by what type of Controller you become but no more than 2 years.

2.  Typically if you fail your training, you are allowed to select a different occupation you meet entry requirements for.  If you fail that they often let you go.  You might get the option to give up your commission and become an NCM if you choose.

3.  AEC are required to serve as an AEC for 5 years (don't quote me on that, check with the recruiting center) after reaching OFP.
 

overwatch

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edlabonte said:
1.  BMOQ + Bachelor's Degree + 2nd LT,  2LT + Occupational Function Point = LT,  LT + 2 Years = Capt.  Promotion beyond Capt really varies because that's when they start looking at your annual reviews, education, language profile, and other things at a promotion board.  Promotion to Maj usually takes a long time to get but promotions beyond major seem to get shorter and shorter the higher you go.
Reaching OFP varies by occupation, Pilot is 3+ years to reach wings standard, ACSO is 1.5+, AEC varies by what type of Controller you become but no more than 2 years.

2.  Typically if you fail your training, you are allowed to select a different occupation you meet entry requirements for.  If you fail that they often let you go.  You might get the option to give up your commission and become an NCM if you choose.

3.  AEC are required to serve as an AEC for 5 years (don't quote me on that, check with the recruiting center) after reaching OFP.

Thanks for the info. In case of #2, what happens if I would not like to pursue another occupation, since I really am leaning to listing only AEC as my only occupation? Essentially, what I am asking is if I'm "forced" to take another occupation? I apologize if this sounds ignorant but I would like to know as much information as possible before giving a 100% of my commitment to something important.
 

PuckChaser

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If you owe some obligatory service due to ROTP, you can be forced into another trade or have to pay back the schooling.
 

mariomike

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overwatch said:
Essentially, what I am asking is if I'm "forced" to take another occupation?

PuckChaser said:
If you owe some obligatory service due to ROTP, you can be forced into another trade or have to pay back the schooling.

To add to what PuckChaser said,

Obligatory Service after Training / Education [MERGED]
https://army.ca/forums/threads/101650.50

 

overwatch

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PuckChaser said:
If you owe some obligatory service due to ROTP, you can be forced into another trade or have to pay back the schooling.

mariomike said:
To add to what PuckChaser said,

Obligatory Service after Training / Education [MERGED]
https://army.ca/forums/threads/101650.50

Thanks for the additional help. I've recently graduated university without ROTP. Thus, I will be applying as a direct entry applicant.
 

mariomike

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overwatch said:
Thanks for the additional help. I've recently graduated university without ROTP. Thus, I will be applying as a direct entry applicant.

You are welcome.

As a DEO applicant,

DEO - Regular Force - General Questions 
https://army.ca/forums/threads/12753.425.html
18 pages.
 

overwatch

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I'm not sure where to post this question but I'll keep it under the AEC thread since it's what I'm aiming for. After my service is complete, what is the process like to continue to stay at the position or move higher in rank? Is it a need/funding based decision by the Forces whether or not you stay in the occupation you have chosen?
 

Blackadder1916

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overwatch said:
I'm not sure where to post this question but I'll keep it under the AEC thread since it's what I'm aiming for. After my service is complete, what is the process like to continue to stay at the position or move higher in rank? Is it a need/funding based decision by the Forces whether or not you stay in the occupation you have chosen?

Maybe it's about time that you start doing some of your own research, instead of asking for the answers to be spoon fed.  The military kinda likes its officers to be self starters.  Just to prove that I'm not a complete dick, I'll give you a few clues.  Since your intent is DEO, let's start with the Defence Administrative Order and Directive (DAOD) that deals with that program, DAOD 5002-2 (see, I even provided the link).  Now, that particular document will probably not answer many (or any) of the questions that you have, but it does list most of the references in which those answers may be found.  A couple of the references are not available on-line to unwashed civvies, particularly ADM(HR-Mil) Instruction 05/05, The New CF Regular Force Terms of Service and Canadian Forces Administrative Orders (CFAOs - a series of documents that have been in the process of being superseded for years but still hang on - but thanks to the friendly folks at the web archive you can access some of them however don't use what is posted there as a legally justifiable source).

The secret to the military is that once you are in, they make it exceedingly easy to stay in (unless you end up broken, are very, very, very stupid or very corrupt or criminal).  If they hire you, as e.g. a street walker, they will train you to street walk in the manner that they expect of their street walkers (expending great amounts of the Queen's treasure in the process); they will then employ you on whatever street corner of their choosing expecting you to ply your trade as they have instructed, but if you start as a street walker, expect to spend your entire career as a street walker (though you may not be limited to the two buck tricks that was the raison d'être at the start of your days on the game).  Once you near the end of you initial term of service (by whatever name they are calling it) you will undoubtedly be offered to extend your service, it's no big deal, you won't even have to have been a top street walker.  For most it happens automatically and it's (for some) not a question of do I need to do something to request to stay in, but should I accept the offer to extend.



(edited to add a couple of verys to stupid)
 

overwatch

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Blackadder1916 said:
Maybe it's about time that you start doing some of your own research, instead of asking for the answers to be spoon fed.  The military kinda likes its officers to be self starters.  Just to prove that I'm not a complete dick, I'll give you a few clues.  Since your intent is DEO, let's start with the Defence Administrative Order and Directive (DAOD) that deals with that program, DAOD 5002-2 (see, I even provided the link).  Now, that particular document will probably not answer many (or any) of the questions that you have, but it does list most of the references in which those answers may be found.  A couple of the references are not available on-line to unwashed civvies, particularly ADM(HR-Mil) Instruction 05/05, The New CF Regular Force Terms of Service and Canadian Forces Administrative Orders (CFAOs - a series of documents that have been in the process of being superseded for years but still hang on - but thanks to the friendly folks at the web archive you can access some of them however don't use what is posted there as a legally justifiable source).

The secret to the military is that once you are in, they make it exceedingly easy to stay in (unless you end up broken, are very, very, very stupid or very corrupt or criminal).  If they hire you, as e.g. a street walker, they will train you to street walk in the manner that they expect of their street walkers (expending great amounts of the Queen's treasure in the process); they will then employ you on whatever street corner of their choosing expecting you to ply your trade as they have instructed, but if you start as a street walker, expect to spend your entire career as a street walker (though you may not be limited to the two buck tricks that was the raison d'être at the start of your days on the game).  Once you near the end of you initial term of service (by whatever name they are calling it) you will undoubtedly be offered to extend your service, it's no big deal, you won't even have to have been a top street walker.  For most it happens automatically and it's (for some) not a question of do I need to do something to request to stay in, but should I accept the offer to extend.



(edited to add a couple of verys to stupid)

Thanks for the additional help. I've done additional leg work, like you suggested, and it has helped a ton.
 

overwatch

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Other members have mentioned that postings for AEC can be typically 4 years. Thank you for the help, as always. I was just wondering if the first posting length after occupational training is a different length.

The CAF said that the AEC occupation has an initial contract length of 6 years. If occupational training takes 2 years and my first posting is 4 years then I will be in only in one spot (would love to see more of Canada but to early to tell if I enter or stay in the occupation). Is my assumption off?
 

Daishi

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So I just got a call out of the blue, and I was given a job offer for AEC. I do have to go in on the 26th to update my medical, tho.

This was my second choice (first was MARS), so can anyone give me some food for thought while I wait for a month to go in?

What are some of the various streams within AEC that I can choose to go into/specialize in?
 

adrianamato

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Hi, I just passed the aircrew selection test for AEC and was wondering what the pathway is to end up working with space objects and satellites as an aerospace control officer. Would it be to choose Air Weapons instead of VFR/IFR and to try to get a NORAD post instead of an air traffic control centre/NATO post? Do you have any control over where you get posted or is it purely based on performance?
 

edlabonte

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The best way to get into Space Ops, is to get in.  I have seen both Air Weapons and ATC get into Space Ops.  It's more about YOU and how much effort you put into Professional Development towards Space Ops. 
 

5kc11

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Hi,

First off, I apologize if this question has been asked. Unfortunately, I've searched 'AEC' on the site and nothing comes up except when mentioned in ACSO threads.

Currently, looking to join the forces as an AEC or ACSO. My recruiter has told me its not a matter of "IF" but "WHEN" I get an offer for either trade (My scores apparently are very competitive). Hoping to get info on Aerospace controllers.

1.) I've spoken to a few officers in the army and many have said you end up at a desk position after serving several tours. After doing my research for ACSO, seems like its a similar situation for them. What about AEC? Or do you simply keep doing your job till you release or retire?

2.) What about pay? The government website states 67k a year for fully trained AEC. How much does an AEC make when they become a Captain? Do AEC get spec?

3.) Growth potential/Promotions. From my understanding after Captain, promotions are based on attrition. Is there opportunity to continue to grow after captain in AEC? Or those positions are few and far between?

Please forgive any ignorance I have and thank you for any info you can provide!


 

Cbbmtt

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5kc11 said:
Hi,

First off, I apologize if this question has been asked. Unfortunately, I've searched 'AEC' on the site and nothing comes up except when mentioned in ACSO threads.

Currently, looking to join the forces as an AEC or ACSO. My recruiter has told me its not a matter of "IF" but "WHEN" I get an offer for either trade (My scores apparently are very competitive). Hoping to get info on Aerospace controllers.

1.) I've spoken to a few officers in the army and many have said you end up at a desk position after serving several tours. After doing my research for ACSO, seems like its a similar situation for them. What about AEC? Or do you simply keep doing your job till you release or retire?

2.) What about pay? The government website states 67k a year for fully trained AEC. How much does an AEC make when they become a Captain? Do AEC get spec?

3.) Growth potential/Promotions. From my understanding after Captain, promotions are based on attrition. Is there opportunity to continue to grow after captain in AEC? Or those positions are few and far between?

Please forgive any ignorance I have and thank you for any info you can provide!


1) AEC officers that I work with either work in the terminal or in the tower. This is all explained on the forces website. Most of the officers I work with have been controllers for life. No spec pay. A couple have moved onto major and outcan positions in weapons.

2) https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/services/benefits-military/pay-pension-benefits/pay/officers.html#captain

3) Like any job, if you take courses on leadership, want to learn french and want to do more desk work and less controlling there is availability to be promoted to Major and become a WATCO.




 
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