AESOp ( MOC 081)

[Eye In The Sky]

Just an update on the way ahead for the AES Op trade from a recruiting perspective;  recent years, there was more of a trend to take more Direct Entry (off the street, CFRC types) than either CT or VOT.  This is going to change, beginning this year.

VOTs (remusters) will be the group we take the largest % of new AES Ops from, as in *well over half* of all new AES Ops-Jrs will come from VOT applicants.  I know in recent years, there has been some people comment on here, or elsewhere, that even after the Direct Entry trial (officially I think it was 3 or 5 years long, so 2009 to 2011 or 2014) the intake numbers still seemed to lean towards DE applicants.  No more.  The trade is still taking Direct Entry applicants, but at a reduced number from previous years.  CT (UT) number remains unchanged (about 1 in 10 will come from CT).  I don't know why the CT numbers are low, but I'd hazard a guess that the CT process being broken and timely are huge factors...again, just my opinion.

For the folks who may have applied for VOT in recent years and not been selected, if you still are don't be hesitant to contact the W/BPSO office and enquire again about remustering to AES Op.  I haven't been keeping up to date on if the VOTP CANFORGEN is released, dates, all that stuff but if you have any questions, post them or PM me etc and I'll see what I can do to help you out with the process.  I am not a trade recruiter or anything, but I've been thru the hoops like the rest of the trade has and might have some advice.

Good luck to anyone who has or is planning on putting their VOT application in, CT or direct entry applicants...and yes, if you are selected you'll go thru the AES Op Aircrew Selection phase now, just as a heads up.  Don't let that scare you off though.

 

[EpicBeardedMan]

How many AES OP's are the forces looking to take in this year? Ive listed it as one of my choices. Is AES OP similar to NES OP curiculum wise? Sucks I missed the DE trial, Im coming back as a re-entry.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I don't know the exact numbers but I would guess somewhere around 24 ish...as a WAG...no idea how are trg and employment is compared to NES OP.  I'd be completely guessing.

 

[Sub_Guy]

How many AES OP's are the forces looking to take in this year? Ive listed it as one of my choices. Is AES OP similar to NES OP curiculum wise? Sucks I missed the DE trial, Im coming back as a re-entry.

No.

There are some similar tasks.  AES Ops are basically NCI Ops, Sonar Ops and NES Ops combined into one trade (that's the short answer).

We are like flying Swiss Army knives, don't forget your spork.

 

[EpicBeardedMan]

Thanks for the quick responses Eye and Dolphin. Just realized with 20/40 vision I'm a no go for AES OP. When I was in before I had 20/20 but I guess my vision has degraded pretty quick since then. Seems like a really fun trade, jealous of all who get in!

 

[Sub_Guy]

Thanks for the quick responses Eye and Dolphin. Just realized with 20/40 vision I'm a no go for AES OP. When I was in before I had 20/20 but I guess my vision has degraded pretty quick since then. Seems like a really fun trade, jealous of all who get in!

It can be, but then again so can any other trade.  It's what you make of it.

I have noticed since we have started taking in DE I have found that some of the kids always seem to be looking for greener pastures, which is good.  However, when it was an OT trade, we were the greener pasture.  Rarely did someone OT in and then try to OT to another trade or release.

 

[EpicBeardedMan]

It can be, but then again so can any other trade.  It's what you make of it.

I have noticed since we have started taking in DE I have found that some of the kids always seem to be looking for greener pastures, which is good.  However, when it was an OT trade, we were the greener pasture.  Rarely did someone OT in and then try to OT to another trade or release.

Its easy to get into a negative mindset i think, and believe the grass is greener just like you say.  AES OP looks and sounds really great. The ones ive talked to on ship or on base have never said anything bad about it. Stoker on the other hand...

 

[Eagle_Eye_View]

IMO the aircrew trade in general are the greener pasture. The AES Op trade really works hard to keep the unnecessary BS to a minimum, and wants our junior guys to focus on flying and operating the sensors. Usually the ones leaving the trade chose to go Officer. 

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Some of it, a part at least in LRP, is the folks who wanted to 'dry' and were made to go 'wet', or vice versa.  Personally, I think a lot of the current issues with Jnr NCO/NCMs leaving or wanting to leave will be solved with the switch back to most intake going back to VOTs, who have some perspective of life in the CAF as a NCM outside the aircrew world.  I know most of the CTs that came to our Sqn are either out, or looking at getting out.  DEs bring their pro's, but also con's.  I think the trade is making the correct move by concentrating on VOTs again in the next few years.

Agreed on the Officer part, some of our guys are not signing their TOS offers, mostly because they want that UTPNCM thing and its not being supported the way they think it should be by the CofC.

 

[Sub_Guy]

There were a few releases a few years ago that raised some eyebrows.

As for the wet/dry bit.  People have to realize they can't be picky and that every AES Op now has to learn acoustics. 

Unnecessary BS, I would have to disagree, our trade is currently moving in all directions with no real vision.  Don't believe me?  Look at the wonderful job they've done with the ASO seat.  Even the changes in Winnipeg, which should be for the better, are not.  When you consider the software/sensors students are learning in the PCT are completely different than the suite on the CT-142.  The lack of communication between all the training units (402/404/406/ADAC) just blows my mind.

IMHO the AES Op trade is in a very fragile state and we need to get this fucker back on the rails.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

There were a few releases a few years ago that raised some eyebrows.

Ya, the last few years have had those it seems.  You missed the townhall yesterday...so I'll pass the message along.  THE FUTURE IS BRIGHT!!!!!  8)

 

[Sub_Guy]

You have no idea how disappointed I am that I missed that.  I'm being serious.

Aviators to Ops jobs as a first posting?  Seriously?  CFEWC?  What's next? Posting Aviators to ADAC?

Let them build the experience and knowledge necessary then send them to a non-flying position.

 

 

[Eye In The Sky]

That might be changing.  OFP moved back to post-OTU/MOAT...now there is efforts to create a USQ for the W Ops/ESS types, etc or they won't be OFP.  No spec with Wings now.

Your boss was there, he likely sent out an email to the Herd as there was only 4ish folks there from your combined bullpins.

 

[Eagle_Eye_View]

OFP moved past UTO/MOAT is a good move IMO, it will reflect the true numbers of the trade.

The lack of communication between all the training units (402/404/406/ADAC) just blows my mind.

I can assure you 402 has good comms with 404. Even the ASO side, we now have an ex 404 member as our Acoustic SME. As for 406, we do have comms but it's true it is not enough. The reason is they have enough on their plate wrt 148 course development and as a community, they are still learning the new Helo. So yes 402 mostly communicate with the LRP because they have enough knowledge and exposure on PCT and what kind of attribute they want for their students, which in terms we produce for them. 

 

[Eye In The Sky]

As for the wet/dry bit.  People have to realize they can't be picky and that every AES Op now has to learn acoustics.

true, but the reality with this younger generation, who aren't locked down somewhat with a mortgage and kids, etc is they just end up not signing their next TOS.  They have options, and if their CAF career is XX more years of being an ASO/NASO and they don't like it, they are walking away and the trade has to recruit, train the new person from scratch again.  What is that, roughly, from arriving at 402 to being a brand new A cat...4 years?

That stuff is hurting us in the near, middle and long term.  I know the TOS sequence now starts with a 7 year VIE, but in some cases that's just when people are ready to be Leads and experienced instructors.

Lots of things to fix...where to start?  VOT heavy intake is one good step IMO and so is moving the OFP, IMO.  Maybe we should be like the FEs and not handing out wings until MOAT.

 

[blacktriangle]

One big military "WTF" moment I had was when I looked into your trade. I was told I didn't have the correct math credit from high school. Apparently I was suitable to apply for ACSO, but not AES Op. This was while serving in a trade that also required the same math (I was grandfathered) and I had BEW plus another related specialty course you guys can pick up in non-flying positions.

As someone that was already completing university on my own time, the high school math course wasn't exactly my top priority. Seemed like the system was a bit too rigid on this issue. Especially if it's the experienced OT types you want to grab.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Ya not sure what that is all about...math isn't my strong suit and I have no issues in my job.  They upped the educational stuff hoping it would result in a better DE type I think.  Now...results like you just posted above.

 

[blacktriangle]

Don't get me wrong, any dedicated person can take night school or take leave and go to summer school. But the OT types have to face the reality of life at the same time. The look on the face of a spouse when explaining night high school, as opposed to being paid to finish university and then getting a promotion afterwards, for instance...  ;D

But I've been impressed by what I've seen from your trade up close, so I can definitely vouch to any other readers that AES Op (and aircrew in general) is a good go!

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Well....FWIW...I have 3 years of college BUT my *high school* education was a GED in my mid-20s, and I seem to be doing pretty well (Advanced Category Non-Acoustics, and a Crew Lead).  Or...people just feel sorry for me.

I'm ok with either, really... ;D

 

[Sub_Guy]

Well....FWIW...I have 3 years of college BUT my *high school* education was a GED in my mid-20s, and I seem to be doing pretty well (Advanced Category Non-Acoustics, and a Crew Lead).  Or...people just feel sorry for me.

I'm ok with either, really... ;D

Pretty good considering some a$$hole tried his hardest to punt you aside early on in your AES Op training.

Overall it's a good trade and motivated individuals will have no problems advancing.