AESOp ( MOC 081)

[hogdogz]

Hey everyone I just wanted to reach out and see if there are any other CT candidates out there that may be able to give me any sort of insight into the timeline. I originally put my CT in back in 2013. Finally heard back in December of 2016. I completed my Aircrew Med and interview in January and was told I should hear one way or another by end of fiscal. I've reached out to my broker multiple times but nothing. Now I've been in the army long enough to know that these things take time but just figured I would ask. Would the next course dates play into it at all?

 

[Eye In The Sky]

It might play into it.  The initial occupation training in Wpg is undergoing some changes and may affect when selection and intake happens.  The word I got recently was this is temporary though.

Eagle Eye View is the guy in the know about all things Winnipeg related. 

 

[Eagle_Eye_View]

The next course is scheduled to start mid July timeframe. Then the one after that is Jan 2018. These are courses of 12 students and as mentioned by EITS, the BAQC is undergoing drastic changes. IAQC will no longer exist and is now under 1 course called BAQC. The length of the course will be about 5 1/2 months and will have a flying phase and multiple sims. You will also have to go through ACS before been accepted into the trade. If you have more  questions let me know and I'll be happy to answer them.

 

[Medic88]

The next course is scheduled to start mid July timeframe. Then the one after that is Jan 2018. These are courses of 12 students and as mentioned by EITS, the BAQC is undergoing drastic changes. IAQC will no longer exist and is now under 1 course called BAQC. The length of the course will be about 5 1/2 months and will have a flying phase and multiple sims. You will also have to go through ACS before been accepted into the trade. If you have more  questions let me know and I'll be happy to answer them.

Thanks for passing on this info, Eagle Eye. I was told that I was selected for AESOP DE about over 3 weeks ago by my CFRC. I suspect that the new course may have played into the delay in receiving an offer as I was told that I need to be course loaded first. I am a recruit school by pass.

If you don't mind, I have a few questions to help myself and others put things into perspective.

Will the new BAQC be considered a blended QL3/QL5?
Will Wings still be awarded following this phase?
Will posting messages provided following the new BAQC?
Has the OFP officially changed to require OTU/MOAT? If so, will spec pay only be provided after specific aircraft training?

Following trade qualifications, if selected for NASO/ASO or MH, is there a possibility of changing your designation later in your career? Or are you a NASO for life if selected for NASO?
Are the Cyclones up and running yet? I have my eye set on this one. If not, what does an AESOP do at a MH posting if our Sea Kings are no longer in service?

Thanks for all your help. Looking forward to hearing from you.

 

[Eagle_Eye_View]

The new BAQC is QL3 only, however Wings will still be awarded upon completion and you will be posted to a Sqn. OFP is now post MOAT/OTU which means you won't get spec pay until you've completed it.

Although rare, it is still possible to cross over MH. However I haven't yet seen someone going from NASO to ASO. To be honest once you qualify on a platform you'll most likely stay on that type of sensor until you reach WO level.

Now as for MH, the community is going through drastic changes. Having said that, it is still possible to go MH from Winnipeg. I had my last 2 students posted to Halifax for Cyclone training.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I never to ask about Spec pay at the townhall last Friday, never thought of it to be honest.  I knew the mentioned Wings still out of Winnipeg, and OFP being moved back to MOAT/OTU/the *supposed to be happening USQ for W Ops/ESS*.

I guess I just assumed spec pay would still be linked to QL5, and that the BAQC+ was still a 5's qual.  ???

:facepalm: got it on the second read. Wpg = QL3 with Wings.  QL5/OFP moved to MOAT/OTU/ESS USQ.

I must have licked a glue stick or lead pipe or something before posting this in reply. 

 

[Sub_Guy]

Because I'm a common sense kind of fella, it'd probably be wise for the MH fleet to acquire a MCpl ASO/NASO type to bring some experience to the Cyclone fleet.  It'd be ideal but we can't spare anyone as we have a severe shortage of ASOs.  (3 at 404... should be 7..  Tracking submarines passively is an art form and is never black and white.

We currently have an ex-NASO currently on our ASO MOAT.  I started as a NASO as well.

Finally.  I'll throw this out there.  We could potentially have Aviators (ASO A cats) sitting on the Aurora passing passive information to the Tac resulting in weapons leaving the bomb bay.  With no one backing them up.  It could be a team of Aviators working to classify the submarine as the ASOs are the only ones trained and qualified to analyze.

I may be a bit off in my thinking, but I doubt there's many Aviators/Ptes/OS in the CAF with that kind of responsibility.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

We currently have an ex-NASO currently on our ASO MOAT.  I started as a NASO as well.

left coast guy?

Finally.  I'll throw this out there.  We could potentially have Aviators (ASO A cats) sitting on the Aurora passing passive information to the Tac resulting in weapons leaving the bomb bay.  With no one backing them up.  It could be a team of Aviators working to classify the submarine as the ASOs are the only ones trained and qualified to analyze.

I may be a bit off in my thinking, but I doubt there's many Aviators/Ptes/OS in the CAF with that kind of responsibility.

Ya...I don't see use ever winning that fight for Spec w/out the Cpl deal (if that's where you were going).  Heck, they forced the *pyramid* rank structure and now look at the shitshow because of that and the downranking that should not have happened in some spots.

Personally, I think they should leave the Spec pay at QL5 and move the OFP as briefed and I am *hoping* that is what they did.  OFP and spec aren't rigidly tied to each other; my previous trade I was OFP at QL3 but, Spec was as per normal - Cpl with QL5.

The Horsemen are having a Change of Command parade in the near future so...who knows what changes will happen/not happen in the future!  Everything is bell bottoms...wait a few years, it will be back in style!

As for hurting for wet and dry guys...come across the parking lot to your old stomping grounds...as Pri 4, we are in THE HURT LOCKER.  Our Stds ASO...I wouldn't want to take his blood pressure at the end of each day!  ;D

 

[Sub_Guy]

I was more or less thinking.  Advance promotions for those who upgrade and are still Aviators!

Manning!  But at least 402 is good to go.  Taking yet another solid ASO performer out of the community.  Asshats

 

[Eye In The Sky]

THE FUTURE IS BRIGHT!!!!!!!!!!  just call over and ask G.Z. he'll tell you that.    :rofl:

;D

415 Pri 5, line Sqn Pri 4 but we have crew posn's not filled.  :dunno:

TGIFF!

 

[Messerschmitt]

Some of it, a part at least in LRP, is the folks who wanted to 'dry' and were made to go 'wet', or vice versa.  Personally, I think a lot of the current issues with Jnr NCO/NCMs leaving or wanting to leave will be solved with the switch back to most intake going back to VOTs, who have some perspective of life in the CAF as a NCM outside the aircrew world.  I know most of the CTs that came to our Sqn are either out, or looking at getting out.  DEs bring their pro's, but also con's.  I think the trade is making the correct move by concentrating on VOTs again in the next few years.

Agreed on the Officer part, some of our guys are not signing their TOS offers, mostly because they want that UTPNCM thing and its not being supported the way they think it should be by the CofC.

Hi, can you explain some of the acronyms.
What do you mean by "dry" vs "wet"? Auroras flying over land vs over water?
VOT's? Voluntary occupational transfer?
CT's? Component transfer? Then what's the difference between CT and VOT?
DE? Direct entry?
UTPNCM? Is that an NCM entry plan?

 

[Sub_Guy]

Wet – Acoustic Sensor Operator.  Responsible for analyzing information obtained from sonobuoys (wet sensors).  Also trained in EO/IR operation and Ordnance duties.  (Aurora)
Dry – Non-Acoustic Sensor Operators. Responsible for operation of Radar, ESM, MAD, EO/IR and Ordnance duties (dry sensors).  (Aurora)

MH AES Ops will be responsible for wet and dry sensor operation.

VOT?  Yes.

DE?  Yes.

UTPNCM.  Once in you can apply for an officer trade & university program (very short answer). 

 

[Medic88]

Hi, can you explain some of the acronyms.
What do you mean by "dry" vs "wet"? Auroras flying over land vs over water?
VOT's? Voluntary occupational transfer?
CT's? Component transfer? Then what's the difference between CT and VOT?
DE? Direct entry?
UTPNCM? Is that an NCM entry plan?

Please don't take the feedback that i'm about to give you too negatively. The  AESOP's that have contributed to this thread throughout the years have provided it's readers with a wealth of information about the trade. Please take the time to review the past 38 pages for answers to your questions in the future. These are regularily used acronyms that have been discussed and outlined thoroughly here and in the military administration page. I'm not sure what your ambitions are or why you're asking but I am under the very clear impression that this is not a trade that is spoon fed or made up of amateur's. Take the time to do your research as it will demonstrate competence and resourcefulness. I recommend you work on both if you want to have are successful interview for this and any other trade you're interested in. That said, It seems that Dolphin_Hunter was in a good mood today.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Please don't take the feedback that i'm about to give you too negatively. The  AESOP's that have contributed to this thread throughout the years have provided it's readers with a wealth of information  Dolphin_Hunter was in a good mood today.

:rofl:  He must have been able to skip out on the townhall this morning then!!

 

[Sub_Guy]

:rofl:  He must have been able to skip out on the townhall this morning then!!

Nope.  I lost the entire day. 

I was in a good mood for approx 20 minutes the other day, which was when that post was made.

However, the pension office has indeed confirmed that I can retire with an immediate annuity.  So my overall mental health has slid back into the yellow.  Which is good news! 

 

[Eye In The Sky]

just remember...the future...is *bright!


* I keep saying that is the train approaching, fast, but...everyone has their own interpretation.  ;D

 

[Pagan]

Never been a better time?

 

[xoulliam]

You guys are inspiring me confidence for the trade  ;D Just kidding, can't wait to be at 402!

 

[Pagan]

Er...ummm

Never been a better time!

(edited for inspiration)

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Don't get us wrong.  Its truly a good trade;  there are some challenges that people getting in the trade likely won't have to face once they are in the positions we (EEV, DH and me) are in at this time; instructors and line sqn Snr NCO/WO challenges.  I've seen enough things to reasonably believe those issues will be resolved significantly in the next 2-3 years.  One of those big changes, IMO, is increasing the VOT intake to *more than half*.

The Direct Entry piece was a good idea at the time, and needed.  The one thing they don't bring that an OT does is experience.  Jnr NCO experience, a DE has zero chance of already having their PLQ and leadership experience.  Once they get on Sqn, upgrade to Advanced Category...well they kind of peak there for a while.  Not ideal candidates for Lead AES Op, without PLQ they can't be instructors.  Its a bottleneck.  So, sure they can be A Cats on a crew, but have no mentoring or training ability or experience and can't progress themselves or others without a lot of supervision by the Lead. 

It was recognized the trade needed to intake more VOTs to capitalize on their experience and Jnr NCO abilities and the intake was adjusted.  We should see the benefit of this in 2-3 years.

The op tempo has been EXTREMELY high for both LRP and MH the past few years;  LRP because of OP IMPACT and MH because of the Cyclone coming into service.  Those effects will also start to fade away in the next 1-2 years or so. 

Those things all have a trickle down effect across the trade.  402 needs to produce more baby AES Ops, 404 and 406 need to train them once they are semi-useful into LRP/MH flyers, and those of us at the line sqn's have to do all our lines of tasking with 'what we have'.  402 and 404 need to draw experienced folks from the line sqn's to conduct their training, the line sqn needs experienced operators to be able to fly, and the balancing/juggling act can become somewhat complicated, with everyone getting some but not all of what they need or want.

But, for those entering the trade now, by the time you leave your 1st tour, that should all be water under the bridge and things should be more "ops normal" for everyone day to day.  :2c: